[Game Takes] Jets 4 Flames 0

[Bingo]

Game Takes: Jets 4 Flames 0

- Calgary out shoots the Jets 32-19
- Five on five the Jets have 70% of high danger chances
- Not eliminated but ... yeah

[Strange Brew]

"but they simply have to improve their bottom six and … well … their top six next season".

This pretty much says it all. Thing is they really tried to upgrade the bottom six this year and it was an utter failure. Personally I have little to no confidence the answers for the bottom six next year are in the system. It's a bad place to be as an organization.

The bigger issue is the top six obviously. They haven't done anything to fix that in two full seasons and I'm prepared for more Sutter style players next year. If we're not going to score anyways, let's at least get some guys that are built for low scoring, close games.

[1qqaaz]

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

[drewtastic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

<Cough Cough> DOUGIE <Cough>

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

Hamilton was probably under appreciated here and something obviously went wrong between him and the club so he wanted out. He's an elite player.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

Nesterov on the PP worked well tonight.

2 on 0 breakaway on the PP. i can honestly say I have never seen that in my life. EVER.

[Wastedyouth]

Kudos for making the effort Bingo.

I didn't even bother watching. Season is wellllll over.

[Jig]

When you are 6 years into it and you have a season like this with this useless roster, you have to be fired as a GM. This is not your first year on the job no excuses

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

Yeah Nesterov isn't a fit on the powerplay for sure.

Keep in mind that under Sutter that's Noah Hanifin's spot, but that's sort of irrelevant as I don't see him as an offensive defenseman.

But honestly I see this more as a Sutter issue in construction as he's back to the two dmen on the top unit (sometimes both units), and how many teams have three/four guys that should be on the powerplay?

Which I guess brings us back to the forwards again. Are they so thin that they have to use three or four defensemen instead of two?

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah Nesterov isn't a fit on the powerplay for sure.

Keep in mind that under Sutter that's Noah Hanifin's spot, but that's sort of irrelevant as I don't see him as an offensive defenseman.

But honestly I see this more as a Sutter issue in construction as he's back to the two dmen on the top unit (sometimes both units), and how many teams have three/four guys that should be on the powerplay?

Which I guess brings us back to the forwards again. Are they so thin that they have to use three or four defensemen instead of two?

Can’t help thinking that if it was Kylington instead of Nesterov on that 2 on 0 giveaway on the powerplay, he might have been able to catch up with them and have a chance to break up the play

[ricardodw]

It is embarrassing for advanced stats to say that the Flames were competitive in that game, never mind played well enough that they should have won.

Ask Sutter if the Flames played well enough to win and deserved to win and just were just unlucky. Pretty much know the answer.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is embarrassing for advanced stats to say that the Flames were competitive in that game, never mind played well enough that they should have won.

Ask Sutter if the Flames played well enough to win and deserved to win and just were just unlucky. Pretty much know the answer.

So you didn't read the story? Or ready only a bit of it?

The Flames held the edge in shot attempts five on five with a 63% margin on the night on period splits of 48%/57% and 83%. In terms of high danger chances though it was 7-3 Winnipeg for 70% on the night. Through shot volume the Flames held an expected goal split of 57%.

Scoring chances were all Winnipeg ... shot volume was all Calgary.

Hell you didn't need advanced stats to see that as the shots on goal were 32-19.

I don't think stats get embarrassed ... they are what they are. I certainly didn't say the Flames should be happy, or that Sutter would be happy, or that Calgary was unluckly.

Hit a nerve Jets fan?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So you didn't read the story? Or ready only a bit of it?



Scoring chances were all Winnipeg ... shot volume was all Calgary.

Hell you didn't need advanced stats to see that as the shots on goal were 32-19.

I don't think stats get embarrassed ... they are what they are. I certainly didn't say the Flames should be happy, or that Sutter would be happy, or that Calgary was unluckly.

Hit a nerve Jets fan?

It is pretty obvious that the Flames dominate a stat that does not relate to winning hockey games but somehow suggest the Flames weak shot attempts should have them win this game 3-2.

So what is the value of you posting this:

the Flames held an expected goal split of 57%.

Individually the Flames were led by Milan Lucic and Mikael Backlund, who both had 80%+ nights. Chris Tanev, Mark Giordano and Dillon Dube were in the 70s. At the bottom of the pile was Joakim Nordstrom, the only player with a sub 50% night for the Flames.

The Flames are the #2 team in the North Division in SAT%. The first team is Montreal, who is #2 in the whole league.... plan the parade route down Crescent Street

the stats you are hanging your hat on are meaningless as far as winning or even being a decent team.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is pretty obvious that the Flames dominate a stat that does not relate to winning hockey games but somehow suggest the Flames weak shot attempts should have them win this game 3-2.

So what is the value of you posting this:






The Flames are the #2 team in the North Division in SAT%. The first team is Montreal, who is #2 in the whole league.... plan the parade route down Crescent Street

the stats you are hanging your hat on are meaningless as far as winning or even being a decent team.

Stats are recorded.

I present them.

I gave colour by not only pointing out the scoring chance splits, but by also talking down the expected goal splits by suggesting it was due more to shot volume than chances.

You are way off base.

The whole tone of the article was around not generating chances, and not scoring goals. You're focusing on the actual stats that have no commentary in them at all.

Very strange.

Some quotes from my game story ...

Have the play territorially, but don’t muster anything by way of scoring chances

Honestly it’s what we expect these days as the Flames, a team that hadn’t generated a lot of offence to start the year anyway, has learned how to be better in their own zone and with the downside being an even greater loss to offenc

Statistically, the Jets had the period’s only five on five high danger chance.

Flames out shoot the Jets 10-5, but once again don’t get a single high danger chance five on five.

Grinding away, not giving up much, but generating nothing.

Think you're barking up the wrong tree if you think I was presenting the idea that the Flames were robbed last night.

You can be an odd duck my friend.

[SeanCharles]

Was putting Nesterov on the PP a motivation tactic for Valimaki?

I really don’t understand why a dman with 3A on the season is quarterbacking our PP2 when we have Gio, Andersson and Valimaki in the lineup.

He looked atrocious out there.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Stats are recorded.

I present them.

I gave colour by not only pointing out the scoring chance splits, but by also talking down the expected goal splits by suggesting it was due more to shot volume than chances.

You are way off base.

The whole tone of the article was around not generating chances, and not scoring goals. You're focusing on the actual stats that have no commentary in them at all.

Very strange.

Some quotes from my game story ...











Think you're barking up the wrong tree if you think I was presenting the idea that the Flames were robbed last night.

You can be an odd duck my friend.

Once again, kudos. To put the time into arguing with Ricardo is nearly as futile and tail-chasing as watching the Flames play right now.

You do the lords work.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Was putting Nesterov on the PP a motivation tactic for Valimaki?

I really don’t understand why a dman with 3A on the season is quarterbacking our PP2 when we have Gio, Andersson and Valimaki in the lineup.

He looked atrocious out there.

Darryl is a very smart man so when he does weird things I tend to think there's a method to the madness but then again you can look at some of the moves he made as GM as simply madness. Sometimes I wonder if his methods just aren't suited to today's players and the league in general. I look at the classless manner he handled questions on Gaudreau's 500th game and the way he's handling Valimaki and wonder if this is truly what the Flames need right now out of a head coach. Maybe next season players will come to camp knowing what to expect and things will be better but I can't help but think there are players in that locker room counting the days until they can get out of this organization.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Darryl is a very smart man so when he does weird things I tend to think there's a method to the madness but then again you can look at some of the moves he made as GM as simply madness. Sometimes I wonder if his methods just aren't suited to today's players and the league in general. I look at the classless manner he handled questions on Gaudreau's 500th game and the way he's handling Valimaki and wonder if this is truly what the Flames need right now out of a head coach. Maybe next season players will come to camp knowing what to expect and things will be better but I can't help but think there are players in that locker room counting the days until they can get out of this organization.

I'm so torn on this stuff.

If I could pick a path I'd choose a player's coach that is supportive etc, but this group hasn't exactly been easy on any coach, let alone the player's coach they tried.

So do they need a kick in the ass?

Is this good for Dube and Valimaki?

I thought he was being hard on Andersson, and then he went out of his way to prop him up and remove him from the disappointing young defenseman discussion. Was that a ploy? Get him nervous and then let him off the hook? He's certainly played better.

Honestly I wish this group had the ability to manage/motivate/maintain themselves so the idea that they need a ball breaker wasn't a thing.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

As much as the Flames need to improve forward depth, I think the need for an offensive defenseman, a powerplay specialist, is also quite pressing.

Nesterov had 3:12 of PP time...
Andersson might be improving, but there's still quite a ways to go.
Gio was good tonight, but he's not what he used to be.

I hear Tyson Barrie needs a contract for next year.
tied for 2nd in defense scoring and 22 pp points. look what he's done for McDavid.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm so torn on this stuff.

If I could pick a path I'd choose a player's coach that is supportive etc, but this group hasn't exactly been easy on any coach, let alone the player's coach they tried.

So do they need a kick in the ass?

Is this good for Dube and Valimaki?

I thought he was being hard on Andersson, and then he went out of his way to prop him up and remove him from the disappointing young defenseman discussion. Was that a ploy? Get him nervous and then let him off the hook? He's certainly played better.

Honestly I wish this group had the ability to manage/motivate/maintain themselves so the idea that they need a ball breaker wasn't a thing.

Thing is, we only hear the public comments, not the actual communication between coach and player. Not saying the public comments don't have a purpose or meaning but it's sure not the whole story.

Look at Hartley's press conference personality vs. how he treated players.