Alberta man changes gender to save money in car insurance

[Slava]

I thought that this was very interesting and should be interesting to see how it plays out. It's got to be a matter of time until the life insurers are asked to deal with this same issue...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...erta-1.4754416

[CaptainCrunch]

Spoiler!

NSFW!

[GGG]

I suspect he’s committing fraud either when applying for insurance stating he is a gender he doesn’t identify with or when he changed his gender on his birth certificate.

Are you allowed to change your gender to a gender you don’t identify with?

[N-E-B]

I see two options here:

1. Don't allow people to legally change their gender

or the more realistic option

2. Charge people based on their driving history and not their gender.

I'm actually surprised that in this day and age insurance companies are still allowed to charge differently based on gender.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah but you know if insurance companies are forced to remove gender based rates, its not like they're going to average the two sets of rates and meet in the middle. they'll adjust all rates to the higher of the two.

[getbak]

I thought gender-based insurance rates had already been challenged in court as discriminatory years ago.

[llwhiteoutll]

Originally Posted by Slava

I thought that this was very interesting and should be interesting to see how it plays out. It's got to be a matter of time until the life insurers are asked to deal with this same issue...

Life insurance will have to start asking what people were born as. Because as much as trans people would like to believe, if you were born a man, you have different risk factors for various ailments. And you can't feelings those risks away.

If people get triggered by being asked what they were born as in order to determine risk and refuse to answer, the insurance company should be allowed to either deny coverage or assign that person to the highest risk category.

Originally Posted by getbak

I thought gender-based insurance rates had already been challenged in court as discriminatory years ago.

And upheld since the insurance companies can prove that there are different risks.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by GGG

I suspect he’s committing fraud either when applying for insurance stating he is a gender he doesn’t identify with or when he changed his gender on his birth certificate.

Are you allowed to change your gender to a gender you don’t identify with?

The insurance thing probably isn't fraud, he sent in his birth certificate showing F.

Getting the birth certificate changed might be, seems like it depends on the rules there.

What is your car insurance rate if you have selected X as your gender?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

I suspect he’s committing fraud either when applying for insurance stating he is a gender he doesn’t identify with or when he changed his gender on his birth certificate.

Are you allowed to change your gender to a gender you don’t identify with?

It's an unintended consequence though. The guy is allowed to change his gender, and he can say he identifies as a female...I'm not sure how that's fradulent?

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I see two options here:

1. Don't allow people to legally change their gender

or the more realistic option

2. Charge people based on their driving history and not their gender.

I'm actually surprised that in this day and age insurance companies are still allowed to charge differently based on gender.

The problem is that insurance premiums are based on losses and mortality. It's not just sexist/discrimination that men pay more, because statistically we're involved in more accidents as young drivers, the accidents are more severe/costly and in the case of life insurance we die sooner. The premium is commensurate with the risk, so higher risks = higher premium.

[Locke]

This would be a great new Geico ad.

"Save 15% on car insurance! Its just going to require a little surgery..."

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by llwhiteoutll

Life insurance will have to start asking what people were born as. Because as much as trans people would like to believe, if you were born a man, you have different risk factors for various ailments. And you can't feelings those risks away.

If people get triggered by being asked what they were born as in order to determine risk and refuse to answer, the insurance company should be allowed to either deny coverage or assign that person to the highest risk category.



And upheld since the insurance companies can prove that there are different risks.

Or we just do what Europe did according to the article and prevent insurance companies from using gender as a factor. There are all kinds of potential risk factors that they could find evidence for which are not currently factored into insurance premiums. All they have to do is adjust their rates to be blended. Which will unfortunately lead to increases in women's rates, but would make everything much simpler.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

I see two options here:

1. Don't allow people to legally change their gender

or the more realistic option

2. Charge people based on their driving history and not their gender.

I'm actually surprised that in this day and age insurance companies are still allowed to charge differently based on gender.

This would be really nice.
I know the stats prove men are higher risk to be involved in accidents, and more serious accidents, but it is still discrimination to charge all men higher rates because of it.

Personally, I've had my license longer than my wife, and both of her sisters combined, with no claims, to their combined 6 or 7, and I still pay more than any of them for insurance. It's frustrating.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's an unintended consequence though. The guy is allowed to change his gender, and he can say he identifies as a female...I'm not sure how that's fradulent?

He says in the article he does not identify as female though.

This guy definately lies to a doctor to get a doctors note saying he identified as a different gender. So does that lie make it insurance fraud?

Now you no longer need the letter from a doctor so what are the requirements? Do you sign any kind of statutory declaration?

Edit: here is the Alberta requirements

Amendment of sex on a record of birth — affidavit requirement
16.2 An application under section 16.1 must include an original affidavit executed by the applicant, setting out the following information about the person whose record of birth is to be amended:
(a) the person’s name as it appears on the record of birth and any other name used;
(b) the person’s date of birth;
(c) the amendment to the sex on the record of birth that is requested;
(d) a statement confirming that the person identifies with and is maintaining the gender identity that corresponds with the requested amendment to the sex on the record of birth.

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/o.../2015_041.html

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by wretched34

Personally, I've had my license longer than my wife, and both of her sisters combined, with no claims, to their combined 6 or 7, and I still pay more than any of them for insurance. It's frustrating.

There has to be more to the story then. If they've had about 3 claims each within the past 6 yrs, their premiums would be through the roof. And by claims, I mean the at fault variety.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GGG

He says in the article he does not identify as female though.

This guy definately lies to a doctor to get a doctors note saying he identified as a different gender. So does that lie make it insurance fraud?

Now you no longer need the letter from a doctor so what are the requirements? Do you sign any kind of statutory declaration?

Edit: here is the Alberta requirements



http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/o.../2015_041.html

Well I guess this is the question though; if you have government ID that says you're a female, and everyone involved in that issues the ID and accepts that affadavit, can the insurer just decide to treat you as a male?

[Ducay]

With gender based anything going out the window these days, its only a matter of time until women can no longer compete (realistically) at sport. That'll be the day I long for, when the identity politics folk finally realizes its quest for equality is literally unquenchable. Men will simply dominate at every sport and it will be discriminatory to have a separate league or competition by gender.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Slava

The problem is that insurance premiums are based on losses and mortality. It's not just sexist/discrimination that men pay more, because statistically we're involved in more accidents as young drivers, the accidents are more severe/costly and in the case of life insurance we die sooner. The premium is commensurate with the risk, so higher risks = higher premium.

If drivers had different accident rates by race, would it be okay to charge different premiums based on those rates?

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If drivers had different accident rates by race, would it be okay to charge different premiums based on those rates?

How about a new rate grid based on how many of the Triple-O boxes you tick?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well I guess this is the question though; if you have government ID that says you're a female, and everyone involved in that issues the ID and accepts that affadavit, can the insurer just decide to treat you as a male?

I think when you make a claim they could challenge your gender identity the same way they challenge whether or not your back is really to hurt to work. They get into their Facebook and look. Wether it’s work it reputation wise to challenge someone’s gender identity to deny a claim is a different question.

[CaptainCrunch]

I Think that the Doctor should be in some trouble though, I doubt he did a proper evaluation and just scribbled a note that allowed a person to game the system.