Work to live or enjoy work?

[TheSutterDynasty]

A lot of people say they want to work to live, which makes sense. Work but have the time for the stuff you actually want to do.

But some more in depth scenarios for two groups of people on CP:

Those that enjoy their career: would you like to work your ideal job 40 hours a week with decent pay OR sacrifice maybe 25%-50% of that enjoyment for a job you work 35 hours a week with significantly more pay?

Those that don't enjoy their career (not necessarily dislike it, but don't necessarily love it/like it a lot): work 40 hours a week, enjoy life now OR work 50+ hours a week making a fair bit more hourly on average (say the 10+ hours were all time and a half) for a few years before settling into 40 hours a week and retiring a few years earlier.

This kind of assumes you are getting by decently well, as for some people it isn't a choice and they have to go with the higher paying job / more hours.

Thoughts?

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

Those that enjoy their career: would you like to work your ideal job 40 hours a week with decent pay OR sacrifice maybe 25%-50% of that enjoyment for a job you work 35 hours a week with significantly more pay?

This is the camp I'd fall into with my current job. I absolutely love what I'm doing now, and it's very fulfilling work. But I am well aware that it's also deeply stressful, and "time away" is invaluable. I'd drop 5 hours for a significant pay increase, even loving the job as much as I do. Gotta look after your own health (mental and physical) as well.

[Dion]

Your personal health should be your top priority when it comes to a career or work. Stress on your body and the mental issues that follow can take the enjoyment right out of your life.

[FlamesPuck12]

I love the work I do and I already work more than 40 hours so I would easily take the additional pay and work over 40 hours a week.

But that being said, once I have enough in my retirement fund and don't ever have to worry about money, I'm not sure if I would continue working.

[Sluggo]

I present to you a logical argument:

Work ---> Beer
Beer = fun + more Beer
Stuff happens; Or it is becomes not the weekend
Work ---> Beer

[EldrickOnIce]

Your example doesn't sound like the most typical scenario, at least in my experience.
I find the trade off is generally between working 50 hours a week in a demanding, high stress career that pays you well, versus working less hours in a less demanding environment for less pay.
It boils down to where you get greatest satisfaction from your life, career or outside career - and the tradeoff between the benefits that more money provides versus more opportunity to enjoy it.
Few of us have the opportunity for less working hours and more pay.
I prefer to think of it as career purchasing freedom. As I get later in my working career, I choose opportunities that provide me the greatest freedom regarding when/where/how I work, understanding that the tradeoff for that freedom is likely less financial freedom.

[OutOfTheCube]

I'm in the second camp (my job is fine, but I don't love it) -- I work 40 hours a week and make enough money to be comfortable, but I'm not rich.

My cousin makes a ton of money, but also doesn't really like his job and sometimes works 80 hours a week. I'd rather throw myself off a bridge.

[Language]

I most definitely work to live. Not to say I hate my job, it's bearable and I don't mind it (I'm a CA/CPA working in O&G).

But I constantly have a countdown as to my next possible vacation. Working is definitely just something I do that allows me to enjoy other things that I love infinitely more.

[Ozy_Flame]

When this question comes up, I always think about when I'm 100 and at my death bed, what can I reflect on in my life? You have to balance work with adventures and interesting things, otherwise your life kind of looks like a mindless drone. Unless of course you made a billion dollars and changed the world working 80 hours per week, but that's rare.

[Muta]

I work to live. If I had it my way, I wouldn't work at all - I would just enjoy everything this world has to offer (exercise, beaches, mountains, family, friends, etc.) instead of slaving away for a corporate master in order to afford things. Running your own business, same thing - lots of work (but definitely more satisfying than answering to someone else), but still lots of work.

I believe, one day in the far future, work (for the most part) will be an outdated concept that will be fully automated. People's time will be freed up to focus solely on health, relationships, education and emotional well being.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

I'm in the second camp (my job is fine, but I don't love it) -- I work 40 hours a week and make enough money to be comfortable, but I'm not rich.

My cousin makes a ton of money, but also doesn't really like his job and sometimes works 80 hours a week. I'd rather throw myself off a bridge.

Same boat as me and my brother in law.

He makes double my salary but is constantly traveling, usually only home 1-2 days a week (including weekends).

Nope, no thank you.

[troutman]

The average work hours per week in my profession is 50. Some lawyers downtown must be doing 60+ hours. One lawyer works so much that his wife and children have to make appointments to see him on the weekend. The pressure to make billable hour targets can be immense. Big clients, big files, long hours. Depression and substance abuse is rampant.

I decided to open my own shop in the suburbs - I work 35-40 hours per week, never on evenings and weekends. This worked well for me so that I had plenty of time to spend with my children. Now they are older and I have more times for hobbies and volunteering.

There are different stresses in running your own office and being responsible for employing a small staff and finding enough work. Probably I could make more $ downtown, but the trade-off is not worth it to me.

Successfully Juggling Work and Family: Tips for Lawyers

https://www.cba.org/Publications-Res...y-Tips-for-Law

[Matata]

I'm strongly opposed to the "work to live" mentality as so much of human happiness is tied to what we do and you can't really be happy unless you find your work to be fulfilling and an expression of your personal values. If you're unhappy with your work, you shouldn't spend your excess energy trying to enjoy yourself, you should spend that energy trying to create positive change within your life that allows you to find fulfillment in what you do.

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Muta

I work to live. If I had it my way, I wouldn't work at all - I would just enjoy everything this world has to offer (exercise, beaches, mountains, family, friends, etc.) instead of slaving away for a corporate master in order to afford things.

Yep, this. I find it bizarre that the one life we have, we spend most of it working, and not just enjoying life and discovering what's out there.

And as another poster alluded to, nobody on their death bed has ever said "Man, I wish I spent more hours at the office"

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Matata

I'm strongly opposed to the "work to live" mentality as so much of human happiness is tied to what we do and you can't really be happy unless you find your work to be fulfilling and an expression of your personal values. If you're unhappy with your work, you shouldn't spend your excess energy trying to enjoy yourself, you should spend that energy trying to create positive change within your life that allows you to find fulfillment in what you do.

It's not that I fundamentally disagree with this type of idea in terms of long term goals, but society would grind to a halt if everyone who worked jobs they didn't like just quit and were only willing to go back to work at a job they loved.

Working for a lot of people, most people probably, is a sacrifice that allows them to do things in other areas that they enjoy more.

Sometimes it isn't as feasible to change careers or jobs, especially if $$ is a factor. There are a ton of jobs I'd rather do than my current career but they pay like crap. I've willingly made that sacrifice for a standard of living.

[OMG!WTF!]

I'm coming at it from the opposite perspective. I want to get a job for the social aspect of it and to feel sort of useful I guess. I enjoyed a couple of the jobs I've had but know that it turns into a grind pretty quickly. So I guess put me down for part time to balance things out.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It's not that I fundamentally disagree with this type of idea in terms of long term goals, but society would grind to a halt if everyone who worked jobs they didn't like just quit and were only willing to go back to work at a job they loved.

Working for a lot of people, most people probably, is a sacrifice that allows them to do things in other areas that they enjoy more.

Sometimes it isn't as feasible to change careers or jobs, especially if $$ is a factor. There are a ton of jobs I'd rather do than my current career but they pay like crap. I've willingly made that sacrifice for a standard of living.

I've been in "work to live" mode and it took me years to pull myself out of it, I had to significantly upgrade my skillset, completely re-evaluate my mentality towards work and sacrificed a lot of money. Competition is crazy high for fulfilling work and nothing is going to fall into your lap, it requires an exceptional effort.

Yes, things would grind to halt if everyone fully committed today, but that's not what it takes, it's a transition that takes a lot of time and effort. Conversely, if we did live in a society where people had stronger commitment to finding fulfilling work and making an exceptional effort, then I think we'd see a lot more small businesses driven by personal values, people would be a lot more productive and we'd all be better off for it.

There is so much positive change the world needs that can support a living, but creating these sorts of opportunities is impossible for people who are only interested in showing up.

[V]

I've been in situations all over that spectrum. I've hated my job and wanted to quit and go back to university, I've had jobs that were fine and paid fine, and now I have a job where I get immense satisfaction from, what I do actually matters to people, I make good money, and get almost 8 weeks off per year. I work about 50 hours a week, but I don't mind because I love what I do.

If I had to choose which situation I'd rather be in, it's the one I'm in right now. It's pretty awesome.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Matata

I've been in "work to live" mode and it took me years to pull myself out of it, I had to significantly upgrade my skillset, completely re-evaluate my mentality towards work and sacrificed a lot of money. Competition is crazy high for fulfilling work and nothing is going to fall into your lap, it requires an exceptional effort.

Yes, things would grind to halt if everyone fully committed today, but that's not what it takes, it's a transition that takes a lot of time and effort. Conversely, if we did live in a society where people had stronger commitment to finding fulfilling work and making an exceptional effort, then I think we'd see a lot more small businesses driven by personal values, people would be a lot more productive and we'd all be better off for it.

There is so much positive change the world needs that can support a living, but creating these sorts of opportunities is impossible for people who are only interested in showing up.

So where are we going to find all these people that have a deep rooted desire to work fast food and have a crappy manager and low pay? Or want to work on a factory floor making jeans for a dollar a day in Asia? Or change adult diapers at a nursing home all day?

I find this concept as unrealistic as the one where poor people need to work hard to find a good paying job... The reality of our world is that most people work menial boring jobs for not much money. There are only so many people that can be pro athletes or radio DJs or run an art gallery. The jobs people desire are few and far between.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by dobbles

So where are we going to find all these people that have a deep rooted desire to work fast food and have a crappy manager and low pay? Or want to work on a factory floor making jeans for a dollar a day in Asia? Or change adult diapers at a nursing home all day?

I find this concept as unrealistic as the one where poor people need to work hard to find a good paying job... The reality of our world is that most people work menial boring jobs for not much money. There are only so many people that can be pro athletes or radio DJs or run an art gallery. The jobs people desire are few and far between.

Menial jobs are a part of everyone's journey. Fulfilling work isn't found only in glamourous jobs, it comes from finding artfulness in what you do and how you are treated.

I think the idea that poor people can't improve their lot in life is condescending garbage. Life is tough and it's very easy to get stuck in an ugly cycle, but there is always a path to something better.

All humans contain tremendous potential for self actualization and being harvesters of change. I know the playing field is very far from even and there isn't room for everyone in the stars. If Elon Musk or Bill gates can revolutionize the world with their ideas, surely you can do better than "job I hate for money".