Can't beat a #1 goalie

[rhino]

I have looked at the Flames wins this year and out of 24 wins this year only 9 have come against a true number 1 goalie. To make it worse 5 of those wins are against 2 goalies, 3 against Mike Smith and 2 are Devan Dubnyk ( 1 win in a shootout). So really out of 24 wins there is only wins against 6 true starters. Just thought it was interesting and maybe a topic for discussion.... then again this is CP so maybe I get ripped to spreads.

[rain_e]

When you practice on backups you score and win against backups. (Flames goalie coach is to blame)

[MarkGio]

Props to the OP for this stat (although I'd like to see the data). This is actually very useful and there's very little information looking back as to when teams are playing starters versus back ups.

The Flames can't score. Although I wish we could check last year if Hartley had a better goals/starter stat, but I suspect it's a system concern.

[GioforPM]

To be fair, you'd have to look at the goals scored and whether a number one in net would make a difference.

[Ashasx]

Devan Dubnyk isn't a true starter?

[rhino]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Props to the OP for this stat (although I'd like to see the data). This is actually very useful and there's very little information looking back as to when teams are playing starters versus back ups.

The Flames can't score. Although I wish we could check last year if Hartley had a better goals/starter stat, but I suspect it's a system concern.

I will edit with the new wins/goaltender in a bit.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Devan Dubnyk isn't a true starter?

Of course he is, my point was 5 out of those 9 wins are against 2 goalies.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Just a suggestion but this needs to be ranked on the teams' #1 or #2 guy, not any perceived status.

For example, in your OP you discount wins against Smith and Dubnyk, even though both are clearly their teams' #1 guy.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by rhino

Of course he is, my point was 5 out of those 9 wins are against 2 goalies.

ah of course

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Devan Dubnyk isn't a true starter?

No, he meant that he's one guy, beaten twice.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Just a suggestion but this needs to be ranked on the teams' #1 or #2 guy, not any perceived status.

For example, in your OP you discount wins against Smith and Dubnyk, even though both are clearly their teams' #1 guy.

I am not discounting the wins but pointing out 5 out of 9 are against 2 guys

[rhino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

To be fair, you'd have to look at the goals scored and whether a number one in net would make a difference.

There is no way to quantify that.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by rhino

There is no way to quantify that.

Exactly.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Exactly.

So your point is?????

[themedicineman]

I counted 15. Don't know who you weren't counting for the 9.

[PepsiFree]

Oct 18 - Lehner
Oct 24 - Crawford
Oct 25 - Hutton
Oct 28 - Hammond
Nov 3 - Jones
Nov 15 - Dubnyk
Nov 16 - Smith
Nov 20 - Howard
Nov 23 - Bobrovsky
Nov 25 - Khudobin
Nov 30 - Enroth
Dec 2 - Dubnyk
Dec 4 - Bernier
Dec 6 - Lehtonen
Dec 8 - Smith
Dec 10 - Hutchinson/Hellebuyck Questionable? Both played... who is the starter?
Dec 19 - Smith
Dec 23 - Markstrom
Dec 27 - Pickard
Dec 31 - Domingue
Jan 4 - Pickard
Jan 7 - Markstrom
Jan 11 - Dell
Jan 17 - Luongo

You could also count Pickard in theory, I guess.

Of our 27 losses, 7 (or 8, depending on how you view Griess) came against backups.


Goals per game against starters (including wins and losses): 2.15
Goals per game against backups (including wins and losses): 3.17 (big thanks to Bernier)


I don't know, 2.15 goals per game against starters seems like it's alright.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Oct 18 - Lehner
Oct 24 - Crawford
Oct 25 - Hutton
Oct 28 - Hammond
Nov 3 - Jones
Nov 15 - Dubnyk
Nov 16 - Smith
Nov 20 - Howard Not a true #1 especially at that early part of the season
Nov 23 - Bobrovsky
Nov 25 - Khudobin
Nov 30 - Enroth
Dec 2 - Dubnyk
Dec 4 - Bernier
Dec 6 - Lehtonen Not a true #1
Dec 8 - Smith
Dec 10 - Hutchinson/Hellebuyck Questionable? Both played... who is the starter? Would argue either are a true #1
Dec 19 - Smith
Dec 23 - Markstrom
Dec 27 - Pickard
Dec 31 - Domingue
Jan 4 - Pickard
Jan 7 - Markstrom
Jan 11 - Dell
Jan 17 - Luongo

You could also count Pickard in theory, I guess.

Of our 27 losses, 7 (or 8, depending on how you view Griess) came against backups.


Goals per game against starters (including wins and losses): 2.15
Goals per game against backups (including wins and losses): 3.17 (big thanks to Bernier)


I don't know, 2.15 goals per game against starters seems like it's alright.

I went with wins against what I would consider a undisputed #1 which in itself could be debated

[FightinSioux]

Teams could also think that we aren't as good as we hope/think we are, therefore, they play their backups against us. So when we actually do play a "number 1" we lose. Our goalies aren't good, lets be honest, and if they were better that only helps our forward group in practice which should transition over to a game. It goes hand in hand and we on the downward hill, currently.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by rhino

I went with wins against what I would consider a undisputed #1 which in itself could be debao

I don't think you can just arbitrarily decide what a starter is when certain teams have a clear #1.

Even with the changes you're suggesting, we still score (on average) more than 2 goals per game vs. 'undisputed #1' which, considering the average of 2.72 per game last year (which is the average of all teams, against both starts and backups) I think that's reasonable.

It's definitely not a call for alarm or a declaration that we can't beat 'undisputed #1s'. We do beat them, at a similar rate as most teams.

Every one of the top 15 goalies has significantly more wins than losses. That means that most teams lose more against them than win. This is true of all teams, not just Calgary.

Dubnyk, who we've beaten twice, only has 6 other losses in 34 games.

When you actually look at the stats, it's not very alarming. We are simply performing exactly like we currently sit: A bottom 15 team.