Who is the greatest of all time?

[foofighter15]

Not an uncommon question in the hockey world right?

Gretzky, Howe, Orr....Crosby. All names people toss into this burning question among hockey fans. The usual answer, Gretzky.

So what I am asking you is,

Who is better, Gretzky or Roy?

A lot of people consider Roy to be the greatest goalie of all time, while others argue that by the time he retires Broudeur will be. And rightfully so. But for now. Given what you know about how both turn out talent wise and what they can bring to your team, who would you draft first if they were both 18 year olds?

The man who can stop the scorer, or the scorer who can beat the stopper?

[Mickey76]

Gretzky for sure, his inlaws didn't cause him as much trouble.

[getbak]

Gretzky.

[Rifleman]

Gretzky. Nearly 1000 pts. more than the second highest, while playing 20% less games. Roy, although best of all time, has numbers many goalies have come close to approaching.

The only blemish on Gretzky's record is he was not able to help another team, beside the Oilers win a Stanley Cup, whereas Messier and Roy were both able to win it with other teams.

[Rifleman]

If a goalie was going to approach Gretzky's impact on the game, this goalie would need to have accumulated about 800 wins, and do it in about 16 seasons.

[Dion]

Gretzky.

[Eric Vail]

Bobby Orr was the best. One year he was an incredible +124!
If you polled long time hockey fans, I am not sure Roy would get the nod as the best goalie of all time.

[King Theo]

Easy Gretzky, even when he stopped playing he could still control a game. Second place is still in the dust.

[killer_carlson]

lets see

one transcended the sport and is still the only hockey player most of the planet has ever heard of.

The other is not even clear cut as the best of all time in his position.

This is embarassing to even be having this discussion.

[habernac]

I am a big Roy fan, and this isn't even close. Gretzky by a longshot.

[FanIn80]

Yeah, this isn't really a valid conversation... to be quite honest.


(...and I absolutely agree that Roy is the best goalie of all-time, and that Brodeur doesn't get even half of the wins he did if he had to play on a non-trapping team even once in his career)

<stokes the fire >

[BCReefer]

Would you not look at the eras that each player played?

I mean Howe in his time could of been considered the best.

What about Bossy in his best of times?

Gretzky in his time and now Crosby.

Points are harder to come by now adays, players are bigger, game is faster, players are just better including the goalies which now have more protection than all time in the history of the NHL.

BUT - I also think Gretzky was the all time best, he seemed to play at a different level than everyone else. I love on comment someone said about him "A fire hydrant can score 50 goals playing with Gretzky"

Here are the points from 1990/91 Season

1 Wayne Gretzky, Los Angeles.......163
2 Brett Hull, St. Louis............131
3 Adam Oates, St. Louis............115
4 Mark Recchi, Pittsburgh..........113
5 John Cullen, 2 teams.............110
6 Joe Sakic, Quebec................109
7 Steve Yzerman, Detroit...........108
8 Theoren Fleury, Calgary..........104
9 Al MacInnis, Calgary.............103
10 Steve Larmer, Chicago............101

2007/08 Season

1
Alexander Ovechkin
WSH L 82 65 47 112 2
Evgeni Malkin
PIT C 82 47 59 106 3
Jarome Iginla
CGY R 82 50 48 98 4
Pavel Datsyuk
DET C 82 31 66 97 5
Joe Thornton
SJS C 82 29 67 96 6
Henrik Zetterberg
DET C 75 43 49 92 7
Vincent Lecavalier
TBL C 81 40 52 92 8
Jason Spezza
OTT C 76 34 58 92 9
Daniel Alfredsson
OTT R 70 40 49 89 10
Ilya Kovalchuk
ATL L 79 52 35 87

1970-71 Season

Phil EspositoBoston Bruins78 76 76 152 71
Bobby OrrBoston Bruins78 37 102 139 91
John BucykBoston Bruins78 51 65 116 8
Ken HodgeBoston Bruins78 43 62 105 113
Bobby HullChicago Black Hawks78 44 52 96 32
Norm UllmanToronto Maple Leafs73 34 51 85 24
Wayne CashmanBoston Bruins77 21 58 79 100
John McKenzieBoston Bruins65 31 46 77 120
Dave KeonToronto Maple Leafs76 38 38 76 4
Jean BeliveauMontreal Canadiens70 25 51 76 40
Fred StanfieldBoston Bruins75 24 52 76 12

PS - Sorry about the format, had to edit a few times to make it look better

[CaptainCrunch]

Easy, Orr, he changed the game completely and played against some pretty tough competition, he was well rounded, he was a great defenseman, he was untouchable offensively, and he didn't need anyone to protect him.

Gretzky was a great player, but I felt that the immense watering down of the league inflated his stats by a bit.

[foofighter15]

Wow this is hysterical. I was having this conversation with a group of huge hockey fans and we were split down the middle, and the discussion got so intense we had to stop it before two guys fought. (Canuck fans)
Anyway, for the record, I'm on the Gretzky side

[Prototype]

Almost everyone knew Gretzky's name before he was able to drive. Almost no one knew Roy's name until 1986.

No brainer here.

Plus... Patrick Roy never had his own cereal, let alone video game, nor did he have a cartoon co-staring Bo Jackson... and... was it Jordan?

[Estevan]

Watch the top ten video's of Orr and Gretz and then tell me who appears in control of the situation. Orr is gold ... Gretzky is gold2

[Tyler]

Originally Posted by Prototype

Almost everyone knew Gretzky's name before he was able to drive. Almost no one knew Roy's name until 1986.

No brainer here.

Plus... Patrick Roy never had his own cereal, let alone video game, nor did he have a cartoon co-staring Bo Jackson... and... was it Jordan?

Yep - those three

Gretzky was always the lame nerd on the Pro-Stars show if I recall correctly.

[TheRedCrush]

I can't believe people even try to argue anyone except Gretzky, and I'm a Mario fan. Fact is Gretzky did accomplish what so many other talents did not over several era's.

Until someone dominates their position the way he did, its will be a long time before we see someone held in his regard. As for Goalies, if Roy or Brodeur had 300 more shutouts than number two on teh goalie list, then there could be reasonable debate on this topic.

Gretzky is the only hockey player mentioned for dominating a sport, which his accomplishments puts him at the top of all sports greatest players. No other NHL player is even in that debate. Not Orr, Not Howe, Not Roy, Not Bossy, Not Mario, Not Sid, Not Ovechkin, wayne and only wayne.

Anyone who says anyone except 99 is either stubbon, playing devils advocate or just doesn't understand how superior Gretzky was to everyone else in any Era. #2 Greatest player is more of a debate for the ages than who was number one - which is not a debate at this point.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TheRedCrush

I can't believe people even try to argue anyone except Gretzky, and I'm a Mario fan. Fact is Gretzky did accomplish what so many other talents did not over several era's.

Until someone dominates their position the way he did, its will be a long time before we see someone held in his regard. As for Goalies, if Roy or Brodeur had 300 more shutouts than number two on teh goalie list, then there could be reasonable debate on this topic.

Gretzky is the only hockey player mentioned for dominating a sport, which his accomplishments puts him at the top of all sports greatest players. No other NHL player is even in that debate. Not Orr, Not Howe, Not Roy, Not Bossy, Not Mario, Not Sid, Not Ovechkin, wayne and only wayne.

Anyone who says anyone except 99 is either stubbon, playing devils advocate or just doesn't understand how superior Gretzky was to everyone else in any Era. #2 Greatest player is more of a debate for the ages than who was number one - which is not a debate at this point.

Out of curiosity, how old are you.

Because everything that you've said about Gretzky is true about Orr.

Nobody has ever dominated the defenseman's position in terms of offense, defense, overall toughness like Orr.

Nobody could change a game in a second like Orr. Before Orr came along it was pretty rare to see a defenseman even cross over the red line with the rare exception. Nobody opened up the game offensively like Orr did from the back line.

Plus Orr could take care of himself on the ice, he didn't need anyone fighting his own battles. When someone roughed him up, he dealt with it.

Orr didn't play in a 21 team league where some goalies were so bad that they had to be tied to the cross bars, where third and fourth lines and bottom pairing defensemen were pulled off of the street and couldn't skate at all.

I like Gretzky, he did amazing things. But to me, there's no comparison to Robert Gordon Orr.

[albertGQ]

Gretzky. No question. It's a close debate now and no one had to witness Orr playing into his mid and late 30's while everyone saw Gretzky play when he got old. If Wayne ended his career after 10 years, he would be #1 with a bullet