Rakell and Lindholm still not signed - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

ThisIsAnOutrage · 10-12-2016, 10:25 AM

Saw this article about the stalled talks for Rakell and Lindholm, both RFAs:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...-lindholm.html

That's a tough spot for Anaheim (and I enjoy it since the Flames never win there

)

Since these guys are both RFAs without contracts, is it possible that they shake loose from Anaheim's system somehow? Could someone who understands the ins and outs of RFA status explain what would have to happen in order for that to occur?

You have to figure that some team out there would take both of these guys on.

Oling_Roachinen · 10-12-2016, 10:27 AM

To leave the Ducks, they would need to be traded, sign an offersheet that isn't matched by the Ducks, or play in a different league.

sureLoss · 10-12-2016, 10:28 AM

They are RFAs. If they aren't signed by December 1st, they won't play this year.

Ducks will retain their rights until they are 27. Only way another team will get them is if the Ducks trade them or don't match an offer sheet.

ThisIsAnOutrage · 10-12-2016, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

To leave the Ducks, they would need to be traded, sign an offersheet that isn't matched by the Ducks, or play in a different league.

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure they could be traded without a contract being in place. I suppose it would just be the rights to sign them that is exchanged then?

Oling_Roachinen · 10-12-2016, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure they could be traded without a contract being in place. I suppose it would just be the rights to sign them that is exchanged then?

Yeah, just like Hamilton was when he was traded from the Bruins to the Flames without a contract.

There's the 7 or 27 rule. A player is RFA until they have played 7 seasons in the NHL or they are 27. Until that time, the team who has their rights have quite a lot of control over the player.

jaikorven · 10-12-2016, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Thanks for that. Wasn't sure they could be traded without a contract being in place. I suppose it would just be the rights to sign them that is exchanged then?

That is correct.

FBI · 10-12-2016, 10:33 AM

Well since Johnny finally signed and I hate the ducks with a passion:

HA HA /nelson

SmoggyFlamesFan · 10-12-2016, 10:34 AM

Looks like their situation is very similar to Johnny. I wonder what their asking price is.

Textcritic · 10-12-2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoggyFlamesFan

Looks like their situation is very similar to Johnny. I wonder what their asking price is.

Except that both these players are offer sheet eligible.

sureLoss · 10-12-2016, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoggyFlamesFan

I wonder what their asking price is.

Rakell is a bit complicated as it has been reported he is injured (well he had a mystery illness) and can't play yet. He is reportedly asking for 6 years @ $24 million.

Lindholm is reportedly asking for around $6.5 per year while the Ducks will be pointing to Jones and Ristolainen getting $5.4

Fire · 10-12-2016, 10:58 AM

Lindholm is crazy.

Par · 10-12-2016, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisIsAnOutrage

Saw this article about the stalled talks for Rakell and Lindholm, both RFAs:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/d...-lindholm.html

That's a tough spot for Anaheim (and I enjoy it since the Flames never win there

)

Since these guys are both RFAs without contracts, is it possible that they shake loose from Anaheim's system somehow? Could someone who understands the ins and outs of RFA status explain what would have to happen in order for that to occur?

You have to figure that some team out there would take both of these guys on.

Go and sign one of them to a offer sheet.

Oling_Roachinen · 10-12-2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmoggyFlamesFan

Looks like their situation is very similar to Johnny. I wonder what their asking price is.

Except, unlike the Flames, there's 0 chance of getting these guys signed with their current cap structure.

With today's 23 man roster, they have just over 4M in cap space. The Ducks have maybe 6M after sending down a couple of spare forwards/defensemen. It's just not enough to sign Lindholm and Rackell. It might not be enough to sign just Lindholm.

They are probably trying to trade Stoner (3.25M) or maybe Cogliano (3M) but as this point they might be forced to make a bigger trade including someone like Silfverberg or Fowler. A very weird situation to be in on opening night. A holdout is not completely unusual, but to have holdouts and not enough room to sign them?

TheoFleury · 10-12-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Except, unlike the Flames, there's 0 chance of getting these guys signed with their current cap structure.

With today's 23 man roster, they have just over 4M in cap space. The Ducks have maybe 6M after sending down a couple of spare forwards/defensemen. It's just not enough to sign Lindholm and Rackell. It might not be enough to sign just Lindholm.

They are probably trying to trade Stoner (3.25M) or maybe Cogliano (3M) but as this point they might be forced to make a bigger trade including someone like Silfverberg or Fowler. A very weird situation to be in on opening night. A holdout is not completely unusual, but to have holdouts and not enough room to sign them?

Murray wrecked his team with boneheaded moves like Bieksa and Stoner, a budget team can't afford to throw away $7m a year for no good reason. He'll be the first GM fired this year, I predict it will happen by Christmas. No Lindholm is devastating for them and Rackell is very good too. Add in Carlyle and a young #1 goalie and you have the makings of a disaster season.
Being forced to trade a quality piece like Fowler for cap reasons could end up being a fireable offence when you've got such bad players taking 10% of the cap.

Vinny01 · 10-12-2016, 12:18 PM

Ducks are posed to have a bad season this year in my opinion. That organization is on the downswing

djsFlames · 10-12-2016, 12:31 PM

LTIR Smid and offersheet Hampus.

Sylvanfan · 10-12-2016, 12:38 PM

Rackell from is still recovering from and Appendectomy isn't he? At least that's what I heard yesterday. So since he can't play...I suspect the cheap ass Ducks won't even look to negotiate until he's a week away from playing just to save a few pay cheques.

Lindholm, should drop pretty soon too. Him and Ristolainen are pretty close, so with one of them signed the direct comparable is now done.

Again...the Ducks always start slow anyway...so I wouldn't put it past them to wait a month and save a couple of pay cheques.

Not like the players ever seem to care. Better to eventually collect a pay cheque in Orange County than get overpaid in Edmonton, Winnipeg, or Calgary.

Oling_Roachinen · 10-12-2016, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Murray wrecked his team with boneheaded moves like Bieksa and Stoner, a budget team can't afford to throw away $7m a year for no good reason.
Being forced to trade a quality piece like Fowler for cap reasons could end up being a fireable offence when you've got such bad players taking 10% of the cap.

To be fair to Murray, Fowler was always a likely candidate to be moved due to their defensive depth and the expansion draft.

However, that makes Bieksa signing even more worrisome. If he does opt to be protected due to his NMC, they are really screwed.

Lindholm, Vatanen, Manson, Fowler and possibly even Despres if he bounces back are probably all 'protection' worthy. Throw in Bieksa, Theodore and potentially Larsson and the Ducks do have a pretty deep and stacked defensive core.

Fowler has been considered the odd man out for quite some time, so much so that the NHL did a piece on him not being traded earlier:
https://www.nhl.com/news/fowler-prep...ks/c-281086440

Quote:

"You hear your name tossed out there," Fowler said. "I've heard that before even at recent trade deadlines, but this time with the position the Ducks are in and some of the salaries, it just seemed like it was pretty real."

neo45 · 10-12-2016, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djsFlames

LTIR Smid and offersheet Hampus.

Expansion draft

Oling_Roachinen · 10-12-2016, 01:29 PM

I think the actual cap would be more of a concern.

The Flames have no room, Smid on LTIR puts them with 3.5M in space. Lindholm isn't signing anywhere close to that.

However, if remotely possibly, the Flames would easily opt for the 8 skater option if it meant getting a player of Lindholm's quality:

1. Gaudreau
2. Monahan
3. Brodie
4. Hamilton
5. Giordano
6. Lindholm
7. Bennett
8. Frolik/Brouwer/Backlund

The problem is that you probably need to offer 7M+, long-term, before the Ducks entertaining not matching. With the 5 year rule, that likely means giving up 4 first round picks.