Pain of dental fees mounts for Albertans

[taco.vidal]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...-for-albertans


Some of the more interesting bits below. Its a long article with many interesting facts and lot more detailed information than in the excerpts below.

The thing that has always irked me is the wide range of rates for the same service. It makes sense that a downtown office in the +15 has higher overhead costs than a strip mall office in the NE. However, I don't think that alone explains the wide range in rates for the same procedures. If you're looking for a new dentist and get some referrals, then if you are cost conscience, you would have to call around to get an idea of rates for some standard charges. Its important to remember that not everyone has insurance and its often low wage earners that have little or no insurance.

A visit to the dentist in Alberta may end the discomfort of a toothache, but a Herald investigation shows that appointment is likely to cause more financial pain than just about anywhere else in the country.
As patients in the only province without a suggested fee guide, industry experts say Albertans may be oblivious to the fact that fast-rising charges mean they are paying significantly more than most other Canadians for care.

With little or no advertising of dental fees, consumer advocates believe the public is also unaware that the prices levied by dentists within the province often range widely.

An internal survey conducted by the province’s dental association and college each year reveals how much more Alberta patients commonly pay.

For example, the median price of $77 for an annual recall exam in Alberta in 2014 was more than two times the suggested fee in any of the other three western provinces.

Numbers compiled by a Toronto-based human resources adviser show dental prices in Alberta have surged over 25 per cent in the last five years alone, nearly twice as fast as its national index of fees.

When dental plan use was factored in with fee hikes, Buck Consultants warned companies last year that “Alberta stands out as having high expected cost increases, exceeding nine per cent.”

Indeed, even a 2013 internal study for the Alberta dental association, while noting that fees for fillings here were often similar to those in other jurisdictions, found that historically “Alberta dentists have charged higher average fees than dentists in other provinces, and it appears from the recent … surveys that this is still the case.”

Claims data provided to the Herald by a major insurer shows fees also vary widely within Alberta.

For example, an annual checkup, including a dental exam and one unit each of scaling and polishing, averages out to about $202 across the province, but can cost as little as $119 in Edmonton and up to $394 in Fort McMurray.

Within Calgary, the price for the same checkup varies from as little as $151 in the city’s northeast to over $265 at a downtown office.

Still, recent listings of dental practices for sale suggest the profession can be quite lucrative.

For example, an established office in Calgary with two dentists and approximately 2,500 patients had gross revenues of nearly $2.2 million a year or about $875 in billings for each active file.

The cash flow of $1.5 million after expenses amounted to an “exceptional” 69 per cent of revenues and placed the unidentified facility in the “top 5 per cent” of general dental practices, according to the ROI Corporation listing.

Another city dentist selling his 16-year-old office through Practice Solutions Inc. had gross revenues last year of nearly $970,000 from about 1,075 active files or about $900 in annual billings per patient.

The listing noted that had yielded a “good” profit margin of 46 per cent or $450,000 after expenses, but before debt service, for working 32 hours a week.

[Slava]

One of the things most frustrating with dentistry is the benefits coverage. Say you have a plan and they offer $100 for a particular procedure. Then the dentist explains that the company is using the 2010 schedule and they charge more, so although you are covered for 80% or whatever, you are paying 20% plus that amount.

I know this isn't the time to put this out there in the economic cycle, but dentistry should be covered under health care. I have no idea how some families get by with no coverage and then having a $1000 bill out of the blue.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Slava

One of the things most frustrating with dentistry is the benefits coverage. Say you have a plan and they offer $100 for a particular procedure. Then the dentist explains that the company is using the 2010 schedule and they charge more, so although you are covered for 80% or whatever, you are paying 20% plus that amount.

I know this isn't the time to put this out there in the economic cycle, but dentistry should be covered under health care. I have no idea how some families get by with no coverage and then having a $1000 bill out of the blue.

I had a homeless man for a patient a few years ago. His teeth were hurting terribly due to neglect. He had an appointment with one of the few dentists who do social services patients (due to them paying much less),but unfortunately he had to wait a month and a half. The pain got so bad that he scrounged some bottle money to get a pair of vice grips. The result was not pretty

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by Slava

One of the things most frustrating with dentistry is the benefits coverage. Say you have a plan and they offer $100 for a particular procedure. Then the dentist explains that the company is using the 2010 schedule and they charge more, so although you are covered for 80% or whatever, you are paying 20% plus that amount.

I know this isn't the time to put this out there in the economic cycle, but dentistry should be covered under health care. I have no idea how some families get by with no coverage and then having a $1000 bill out of the blue.

I do agree, or when you have dual coverage and still have to pay out of pocket, I dont get it wife has 80% coverage and mine is 100% yet there is always an outstanding amount when we leave the dentist office. As well, I went through a time when we had no dental coverage at all (persay) as my benefits were 100% through a spending account. The fees were substantialy less when you paid for everything then when you were "covered" by a health plan. The dentists are the same as an autobody shop or roofer, if it is through insurance the prices are far higher then when you pay for it yourself.

[Nufy]

I would gladly pay a health care premium again if they picked up Dental.

As an independent contractor,I have a Blue Cross Plan for my familys health care needs.

I usually pay the same amount again out of pocket on top of what Blue Cross covers.

And it all basic dental needs.

[normtwofinger]

Dental vacation!

http://internationalliving.com/2012/...t-dental-care/

[lorenavedon]

According to government, apparently your teeth have nothing to do with your health, it's just cosmetic.

Makes no logical sense why it isn't covered as part of general healthcare like going to your GP or walk-in clinic. I'd pay increased taxes to have everything taken care of if required.

[GGG]

In most cases dental care is something that is 100% preventative. If you take care of your teeth you shouldn't need it.

I think standard dental for kids should be covered as they shouldn't be punished for poor parents but adults should take care of their own teeth. If you look at the fee rates for dentists in the article it's about $500 to $1000 dollars a head. So that represents probably a 2k increase per tax payer.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by GGG

In most cases dental care is something that is 100% preventative. If you take care of your teeth you shouldn't need it.

I think standard dental for kids should be covered as they shouldn't be punished for poor parents but adults should take care of their own teeth. If you look at the fee rates for dentists in the article it's about $500 to $1000 dollars a head. So that represents probably a 2k increase per tax payer.

I can't possibly disagree with you more. Cleanings are part of dental care, twice a year. And even if you brush and do that, you can still develop problems. What an ignorant post. Perhaps we should have American health care premiums too since most health problems can be prevented?

[lorenavedon]

Originally Posted by GGG

In most cases dental care is something that is 100% preventative. If you take care of your teeth you shouldn't need it.

I think standard dental for kids should be covered as they shouldn't be punished for poor parents but adults should take care of their own teeth. If you look at the fee rates for dentists in the article it's about $500 to $1000 dollars a head. So that represents probably a 2k increase per tax payer.

stupid argument. Many health conditions are preventable. Broken bones, accidents, some types of cancer, diabetes, HIV, etc you can argue that apart from genetics most health issues people go to the doctor for are preventative. Are you going to sit there and make that judgment call on everybody that goes into a doctor's office?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Slava

One of the things most frustrating with dentistry is the benefits coverage. Say you have a plan and they offer $100 for a particular procedure. Then the dentist explains that the company is using the 2010 schedule and they charge more, so although you are covered for 80% or whatever, you are paying 20% plus that amount.

I know this isn't the time to put this out there in the economic cycle, but dentistry should be covered under health care. I have no idea how some families get by with no coverage and then having a $1000 bill out of the blue.

Blue cross?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

I can't possibly disagree with you more. Cleanings are part of dental care, twice a year. And even if you brush and do that, you can still develop problems. What an ignorant post. Perhaps we should have American health care premiums too since most health problems can be prevented?

Cleanings 2x per year are important but the filling because of the cavity you get from not brushing/flossing properly isn't.

Very preventable expense.

[Ahuch]

Originally Posted by Azure

Cleanings 2x per year are important but the filling because of the cavity you get from not brushing/flossing properly isn't.

Very preventable expense.

So we shouldn't treat people for lung cancer if they smoke cigarettes, right? That seems preventable to me.

[Johnny199r]

I haven't been to the dentist since 2008. I have dual coverage between my work benefits and my woman's work benefits.

I just hate the dentist so much, the thought of going instantly puts me in a bad mood.

[malcolmk14]

I didn't have benefits from 2011 to 2014 so I hadn't been to the dentist in about 3 years. Finally went in December and it felt good to have full coverage! I'll be heading back twice a year.

[karl262]

After going through a complete nightmare fighting my benefits company for an accidental dental incident, I cannot underscore how happy I am that we don't have to go through that with life threatening illnesses like in the US. Great West Life can go straight to #ell.

[kootenayguy9]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

I do agree, or when you have dual coverage and still have to pay out of pocket, I dont get it wife has 80% coverage and mine is 100% yet there is always an outstanding amount when we leave the dentist office. As well, I went through a time when we had no dental coverage at all (persay) as my benefits were 100% through a spending account. The fees were substantialy less when you paid for everything then when you were "covered" by a health plan. The dentists are the same as an autobody shop or roofer, if it is through insurance the prices are far higher then when you pay for it yourself.

Time to switch dentists then. I had a conversation at work the other day and we talked about the cost of crowns and it ranged from $700 to about $1600 for the same procedure. I know I am lucky because my dentist charges very close to the fee guide. I had to pay $0.03 out of pocket last time I was at the dentist.

[Northendzone]

The reason that you still have out of pocket costs when both you and your spouse have coverage is because the dentist will charge you and amount for a service (ie $100 for a filling); however, the insurance company has their own fee guide, and will only calculate reimbursement up to that amount - say $90. The only way to eliminate the out of pocket costs is if you have a health spending account in place - then all of your out of pocket costs are reimbursed assuming you have funds available.

The numbers that surprised me in this survey was the amount billed per patient, I think that is low relative to data I see at work.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Ahuch

So we shouldn't treat people for lung cancer if they smoke cigarettes, right? That seems preventable to me.

Who said we shouldn't treat them? I just said that for the guy who has the pay the bill for the filling he had, it is usually preventable.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by lorenavedon

stupid argument. Many health conditions are preventable. Broken bones, accidents, some types of cancer, diabetes, HIV, etc you can argue that apart from genetics most health issues people go to the doctor for are preventative. Are you going to sit there and make that judgment call on everybody that goes into a doctor's office?

Outside of smoking I would argue that most health conditions that need treatment are not preventable in the same way root canals and cavities are. Accidents by their very definition are not preventable.

As a society we need to draw a line on what we cover. I'm fine with dental for adults being outside that line.