Gay persecution vs. "Anti-religion bigotry" thread

[rubecube]

Maybe we can leave this stuff out of the Orlando thread now?

[CaptainCrunch]

I would hope we could, but this thread just has the real potential to spiral out of control and become really personal in a damn hurry.

[polak]

This thread shouldn't be a thing.

Stop feeding the trolls.

[DuffMan]

seems to me the Orlando shooter was gay, and the guilt that he lived with his whole life lead to his mental state. gay persecution is a religious thing, that some non religious rednecks have picked up on.

ps - I haven't read any of the Orlando thread. too long when I started.

[corporatejay]

There is no such thing as "anti-religion" bigotry. That's a made up thing by religious bigots.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

There is no such thing as "anti-religion" bigotry. That's a made up thing by religious bigots.

So, everyone recognizes that this applies equally to any religion, right? That is, you've essentially said here, "there is no such thing as Islamophobia". Is there any such thing as anti-semitism?

PS - I'm glad I bailed on the other thread. That seems to have gone off the rails rather quickly.

[Looch City]

What's the phobia for Christianity? I don't think I've heard of the term yet...

Christiophobia, Christianophobia, Christ-phobia?

[Nyah]

It's the 'War on Christianity'. They invented it.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

What's the phobia for Christianity? I don't think I've heard of the term yet...

Christiophobia, Christianophobia, Christ-phobia?

Intelligence.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

So, everyone recognizes that this applies equally to any religion, right? That is, you've essentially said here, "there is no such thing as Islamophobia". Is there any such thing as anti-semitism?

PS - I'm glad I bailed on the other thread. That seems to have gone off the rails rather quickly.

Anti-(insert religion here) bigotry is not the same as Ant-religion bigotry.

To be anti-semetic or islamophobic involves the exclusion, prejudice, or persecution of that group. To be anti-religious does not necessarily mean you persecute or exclude those who are of religious faiths.

I'm sure there are atheist people who do so, (heck, I would have a really tough time dating a religious person, and is honestly probably a deal-breaker for me) but I wouldn't say that it has any significant prevalence in society. And me not dating religious people doesn't have to do with any specific religion or even an aversion to religion itself. It's that there will be a lot of things we fundamentally disagree on and thus, a relationship is unlikely to work.

[polak]

Yeah I'd consider myself strongly anti-religion but that doesn't involve any discrimination?

[Coach]

Originally Posted by polak

Yeah I'd consider myself strongly anti-religion but that doesn't involve any discrimination?

Yeah, it's not like I don't hang out with religious people and get along with them just fine. Even have great, respectful debates.

But if you think anything I say that goes against your religion would be considered bigotry, well yeah, I'm probably not hanging out with you. But that's not because you're religious.

[PsYcNeT]

Every time you say "happy holidays" you are hammering in the wrist nails a bit deeper.

[jammies]

Well, since this is the thread for it...

Vilifying Christianity is not productive, but vilifying is not the same as pointing out issues with it. To say mainstream Christian attitudes are not both historically anti-gay, and actively anti-gay today, is simply false. The same with Islamic or Jewish attitudes, both of which share the same proscriptions against homosexuality from the same sources, and have the same anti-humanist throwbacks among their believers.

When the claim is that Christianity has largely created the culture we live in, you have to accept that the darker aspects of that culture are also mainly Christian. To move beyond these darker aspects means we must reject at least some of Christianity to do so. This is not simplifying the causes of violence against gays, this is recognizing that basing your religion upon a book that advocates violence against gays is one of the root causes of such violence. Let me say that again, although you would think it would be too obvious to need repetition: if the book you believe in says you should hate gays, it becomes a primary reason why believers hate gays.

There are many Christians, Muslims and Jews that do not hate, or even wish to marginalize gays, but they are doing so against what their holy books teach. Of course, once you reject one part of your religion, it becomes easier to reject more and more of it until you espouse it not at all, which is why it is such a contentious issue for the rabidly faithful, who are not interested in nuance and change but rather inerrant, eternal faith.

[GGG]

I don't know if you can say mainstream Christianity As a blanket statement. Evangelicals and Catholics are still anti gay though Catholics are slowly moderating with both Anglican and United churches being relatively accepting.

[Erick Estrada]

The human race will never evolve until we all come to the realization that living our lives to appease fictitious gods is silly.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by jammies

Of course, once you reject one part of your religion, it becomes easier to reject more and more of it until you espouse it not at all, which is why it is such a contentious issue for the rabidly faithful, who are not interested in nuance and change but rather inerrant, eternal faith.

Peter12, do you feel this applies to you? Genuinely curious.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don't know if you can say mainstream Christianity As a blanket statement. Evangelicals and Catholics are still anti gay though Catholics are slowly moderating with both Anglican and United churches being relatively accepting.

Last I checked, 1.2 billion of the 2.2 billion Christians were Catholic. Add the evangelicals in there, and the 90 million Anglicans are pretty clearly not the mainstream.

Further, the United Church is in crisis because of exactly what I'm talking about - the evolution of the church's ideas to where its members realized it was incompatible with actually calling yourself Christian, so you might as well either leave for a more traditionally minded church, or leave churches altogether.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by jammies

Last I checked, 1.2 billion of the 2.2 billion Christians were Catholic. Add the evangelicals in there, and the 90 million Anglicans are pretty clearly not the mainstream.

Further, the United Church is in crisis because of exactly what I'm talking about - the evolution of the church's ideas to where its members realized it was incompatible with actually calling yourself Christian, so you might as well either leave for a more traditionally minded church, or leave churches altogether.

I was more looking at North America, and your Catholic numbers aren't really that accurate because it includes lapsed Catholics with much more moderate views than the hard line the church takes.

Its odd you point out the United church doctrinal changes because there is nothing within the Christian faith that makes accepting gay people non compatible any more than eating shellfish.

In Canada 5 million of 22 million Christians are Anglican or United. Which represents a significant portion of mainstream Christianity (wiki)

And this still ignores the large number of cultural / lapse Catholics that still self identify yet hold a wide variety of views on social issues.

[ZedMan]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

There is no such thing as "anti-religion" bigotry. That's a made up thing by religious bigots.

Uh, Joseph Stalin's USSR???