Mason Raymond v. Hartley

[GioforPM]

Interesting - for all that posters figured that Hartley gave Raymond ice time he didn't deserve, he begs to differ:

http://calgaryherald.com/sports/hock...ce-in-the-past

[IgiTang]

Interesting. Anyone actually know what happened between Mason and Bob?

[CroFlames]

Sounds pretty darn whiny in that article.

Guess what Mayray, Bob doesn't control your compete level while you are actually on the ice. And your compete level was garbage.

And I still hate your hunched over skating style.

[GioforPM]

I didn't mind Raymond's compete level I figured he forechecked OK for a guy of his size. His execution wasn't there and he wasn't on the same page as linemates quite a bit. I think his mistakes were often exaggerated though.

Anyway, who's right or wrong in that dispute is kind of irrelevant, since they are both gone. I just found it interesting that lots of people thought Raymond was one of Bob's pet veterans. It seems like he wasn't.

I will say I thought Raymond took his demotion OK - at least in that he seemed to play pretty well in Stockton.

[Vinny01]

Never been a Raymond fan and thought the signing was a poor one from day one. Also not shocked that he hated Hartley pretty sure most of the team disliked him towards the end

[nik-]

Hartley giving him more ice time than he deserved and Raymond thinking he deserved more ice time are not mutually exclusive.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

...And I still hate your hunched over skating style.

^
You do know that Raymond broke his back a few years ago, right? That will make anyone's skating style look pretty awkward.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I did not expect Raymond to place the blame on anyone but himself for his time in Calgary. He was making 3.25 mil a year and did nothing but fall on the ice and score against weak teams. If it wasn't for that contract he wouldn't of even had those hundred chances to prove himself in the first place. Would of been buried in the AHL a month after that contract.

[Huntingwhale]

I'm not too sure what the purpose of this article was other then to deliver some useless news during a slow summer. Seems like an article about...nothing.

"Bob did this. I wanted that. But I won't elaborate."

I learned literally nothing about what happened between the two. If I have one thing to pull from that article, to me it seems like Raymond was expecting top 6 minutes and didn't get it.

The guy sucked, plain and simple. His style didn't mesh well. He didn't use his linemates well. Other then his very few hot steaks, he was useless. Hard to blame the coach for that.

Best wishes to him...I guess

[JiriHrdina]

When Raymond got opportunities, even if they were limited, he wasn't good enough.
So that's it for me.
When you get opportunities in pro sports - you best take advantage of them. Otherwise you may not get another one, if you think you deserve it.

If he played well when in the lineup his argument would have some merit. But he didn't. So there's nothing to stand behind there.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I found the article weird.

“I’ve moved on, I’ve carried on,” Raymond, who turns 31 in a couple of weeks. “I come out here and still skate with these guys. I’ve made good friends. But I’ve moved on. If you’re going to dwell on that … maybe there’s more of a sore spot with him or somebody else, I don’t know. But for me, I’ve moved on. It was an obstacle. It’s old news.”

Sounds like he is responding to something in particular, however that was not identified. It comes across to me as clumsy writing.

[CroFlames]

I wonder if he's moved on?

[Erick Estrada]

Being a local boy it would have been nice had things worked out but it didn't. I don't harbor any ill will towards him and hope he does fine with the Ducks except when he's playing the Flames. Odd though how he excelled under Carlyle and not under Hartley given they both coach similar styles based on free wheeling, one way play.

[ricardodw]

It would be interesting if this is an indication of a rift between Hartley and Treliving.

There is to be some expected friction between a GM and coach- as in you gave me this lineup and ask me to win? Hartley was the absolute darling of the Calgary fans and Media with his gooning in Vancouver and then taking an AHL line-up to the playoffs in 2015. Hartley would have got a lot more credit for the Flames success than Treliving did for drafting Bennett.... and signing Hiller, Raymond and Engelland.

It became Trevling's team last year with him adding Frolik/Hamilton and going with Hiller /Rammo/Ortio. Pretty sure that Hartley would have mentioned that he might have won a few more games with a NHL goaltender and that Hamilton was not a 6M defenseman,

Raymond was an awful signing right after Treliving was hired. He was exactly what the undersized Flames did not need. Pretending that he was going to be a Cammalleri replacement was an incredible reach.

Treliving seems to want to manage line combinations which is what the coach is paid to do. He has put pressure on GG to play Brouwer with Bennett..... I can't see where that is at all helpful. GG is going to get second guessed and criticized far more than he has ever had before in his career and even before the team hits the practice ice his GM is publicly making suggestions.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
You do know that Raymond broke his back a few years ago, right? That will make anyone's skating style look pretty awkward.

He's been skating that way forever.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Thought those were file photos at first, suppose it doesn't mean anything but slightly odd to still see him still sporting the Flames practice jersey.

Good luck with the Ducks though.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I'm not too sure what the purpose of this article was other then to deliver some useless news during a slow summer. Seems like an article about...nothing.

I'll take it!

[Locke]

I hate people blaming the coach for an absolutely abysmal season, especially when they're a 6-10 forward.

Whats that? You're only good at one very particular thing and no other things and the coach didnt use you to your best abilities because there were like 5 other players who could not only do that one thing that you can do but can do it better than you and still manage to play the rest of the position?

Thats a shame, but yeah, its totally the coach's fault.

[Azhouse]

He'll be in the A by game 20 (if he makes it at all).

[Erick Estrada]

To be fair there are plenty of players in the past that never played to their full potential under certain coaches. Greg Gilbert didn't like Marc Savard. While Savard wasn't an angel, Gilbert was pretty unreasonable. I'm fine with a player accepting blame for their play and acknowledging that he wasn't a good fit for a particular coach.