TSN Longform: Lifetime Penalty

[PeteMoss]

http://longform.tsn.ca/lifetime-penalty

Big article about the concussion issues faced by Mike Peluso and Dan LaConuture (who suffered one concussion in a fight against Robyn Regehr).

Pretty sad what has happened to these guys. And makes you wonder why guys like McGratton still fight in the AHL.

[CroFlames]

Your post lost credibility when you put an "o" in McGrattan's name.

And I'm not even a grammar nazi.

[TheScorpion]

Hey, you could say he was referencing McGrattan's weight class: McGrat-TON.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Your post lost credibility when you put an "o" in McGrattan's name.

And I'm not even a grammar nazi.

Really? That's all you have?

[McG]

After having read the Players' Tribune articles, and now this, I wonder when the NHL and NHLPA will stop treating players as widgets or parts in a machine and treat them more as assets.

As a soccer coach at Tier 1 and Tier 2, I am very concerned about heading the ball, which would cause every bit as much damage as a punch. My children play on these teams, and I really worry about concussions affecting their lives.

I don't know how to remove the risk of head injury from the sports that we all love, without fundamentally changing the sport. Gridiron football would become flag/touch football, soccer would need to remove heading, hockey would need to remove high hits.

If you have the slightest interest in this topic, i recommend this excellent TSN article, and the two Players' Tribune articles.

Thank you to PeteMoss for the original post.

[neo45]

Heading a soccer ball does not cause as much damage as a punch. Force equals mass times acceleration and a soccer ball does not weigh as much as a human arm

[Benched]

Originally Posted by neo45

Heading a soccer ball does not cause as much damage as a punch. Force equals mass times acceleration and a soccer ball does not weigh as much as a human arm

maximum velocity of a punch by a professional heavyweight boxer = 8.9m/s or 32km/hr
maximum velocity of a kicked soccer ball by a professional player = 35.8m/s or 129km/hr (average is 108km/hr)


so yeah...if you're going to use math. use all the variables you quoted...

[neo45]

That's not heading the ball. That's getting hit in the face with a ball

[troutman]

http://www.nap.edu/read/10362/chapter/3

Although soccer balls can be kicked to speeds as high as 70 miles per hour, even most professional players cannot kick a ball that fast and most soccer players would not attempt to head a ball moving that fast, Dr. Kirkendall said. He also added that youths rarely have enough force to kick a ball to speeds higher than 40 miles per hour. He calculated the impact of a soccer ball on the head of youths of various sizes, based on the likely speed of the ball, and concluded that the force of impact is well below the force that is thought to be necessary to cause a concussion in heading a soccer ball.

But he added that concussions do occur in soccer when the ball hits an unprepared player in the head. He also gave examples of concussions occurring when players accidentally knock their heads into other players while attempting to head the ball, particularly if they are attempting to flick the ball backwards.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commen...ce-study-shows

Heading a modern soccer ball can carry as much force as a tackle by an American football player, according to a study by Purdue University in Indiana. The study, which focused on women's soccer, tested two high school teams and one collegiate-level squad during an entire season, monitoring the G-force impact of heading a ball through sensors and MRI scans which then tracked the changes in a player's brain.

Eric Nauman, the director of the Human Injury Research and Regenerative Technologies Laboratory at Purdue University, told The Guardian that the force of heading a goal kick came in between 50g and 100g.

"I'm willing to bet that if a Premier League keeper kicks it out and a player heads it back, they could be pushing 150g or 160gs," he added. "After all, our study on women's soccer players altered our preconceptions. And with soccer it's clear we're only scratching the surface."

http://www.drdavidgeier.com/are-socc...nches-to-head/

They reportedly used a size-5 soccer ball delivered repeatedly to a dummy head at 18 meters per second. This is thought to be the average speed of the ball when kicked by nonprofessional soccer players. The amateur boxers delivered punches to that same dummy head.

The researchers apparently found that the forces to the head are similar between the moving soccer balls and the punches.

[neo45]

Soccer is a physical sport but the risk of concussion is significantly lower than a sport where someone is trying to punch you in the head

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by neo45

Soccer is a physical sport but the risk of concussion is significantly lower than a sport where someone is trying to punch you in the head

ok now you are talking nonsense..

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by neo45

Heading a soccer ball does not cause as much damage as a punch. Force equals mass times acceleration and a soccer ball does not weigh as much as a human arm

I won't disagree, but I think this misses the point. All of us need to be very concerned about protecting players in all sports from head injuries. Period. If heading in football is a contributing factor to debilitating head injuries, and if it is deemed to be a correctable problem through protective equipment, or the elimination of the practice, or what have you, then this is certainly something that needs to be explored.

Head injuries will continue to be a problem in hockey, but there are ways that they can be reduced without having a detrimental impact on the game. The NHL and the NHLPA need to be more seriously committed to the problem, its mitigation, and eventual elimination.

[Benched]

Originally Posted by McG

After having read the Players' Tribune articles, and now this, I wonder when the NHL and NHLPA will stop treating players as widgets or parts in a machine and treat them more as assets.

As a soccer coach at Tier 1 and Tier 2, I am very concerned about heading the ball, which would cause every bit as much damage as a punch. My children play on these teams, and I really worry about concussions affecting their lives.

I don't know how to remove the risk of head injury from the sports that we all love, without fundamentally changing the sport. Gridiron football would become flag/touch football, soccer would need to remove heading, hockey would need to remove high hits.

If you have the slightest interest in this topic, i recommend this excellent TSN article, and the two Players' Tribune articles.

Thank you to PeteMoss for the original post.

Was trying to have this conversation with a coworker....just don't see how sports can exist as they presently do, into the future, knowing what we know about concussions and health concerns. This issue is not going away.

Changes have to be made. The head trauma stuff can't be shrugged off as 'oh well they're paid well, if the job comes with risks so what?'. Employers need to provide a safe environment to work in, doesn't matter what the environment is.

Football, Soccer, Hockey, for sure. Hell even in Basketball/Baseball you can take a shot to the noggin, but at least there it's rare, not a repeat occurrence. Things like MMA and Boxing? Probably should be out right banned. I know that'll be ulta unpopular, but we know that repeated blows to the head causes health issues....yet we just keep the sport 'cause what? we are entertained by it?


Not a popular position, and it may mean hard choices in the future....but I don't see this going away or how it can even remain status quo forever. I understand the billion dollar organizations are going to fight this tooth and nail, but IMO that just delays change, it is not going to stop it.

[afc wimbledon]

I've played and watched soccer for over 45 years and i can't remember ever seeing a concussion.
Im not saying it doesn't happen but I can't believe it's common.

[neo45]

The biggest problem is that helmets only protect the skull, not what is inside it. Mouth guards do more to prevent concussions

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I've played and watched soccer for over 45 years and i can't remember ever seeing a concussion.
Im not saying it doesn't happen but I can't believe it's common.

There is ongoing and lively debate within the medical community that the most significant danger to players is not just "concussions", but also the frequent repetition of "asymptomatic subconcussive hits to the head."

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by neo45

. Mouth guards do more to prevent concussions

I believe the latest information is that mouth guards do nothing/significantly less than once thought for concussion prevention.


If you have a study I would love to read it.


edit:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...n-mouthguards/

WHY WEAR THEM?

The benefits of mouthguards for oral protection are apparent, but what about for concussions? “Actually, there’s no specific proof they prevent concussions,” says Goldberg. “If there’s a blow to the chin and the lower teeth hit the upper teeth hard enough, yeah, it can cause a concussion. There’s also a second type of concussion where the lower jaw is pushed back into the skull. But a shot to the back of the head? The mouthguard’s not going to help.” Nkansah agrees, politely calling suggestions that mouthguards reduce concussions “working theories.”

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Women's soccer has very high rates of concussions especially relative to male soccer, the theory being that women have weaker neck muscles and that the rapid movement of the head makes them more susceptible to being concussed. I have read some studies which actually point to soccer as being a high risk due to the collisions that occur at high speed as well as the micro-traumatic events such as heading the ball, which on their own are not going to cause a serious concussion but when taken as an accumulation of the events have the same impact as concussions. Many of the same things happen with skeleton and luge racers if memory serves me correct, as when they go down the track on the sled the jarring motions cause their brains to make contact with their skulls.

We really still know very, very little about concussions and why there are some people who are more prominently impacted.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I believe the latest information is that mouth guards do nothing/significantly less than once thought for concussion prevention.


If you have a study I would love to read it.

Mouth guards have never been shown to do anything, much like helmets actually. It isn't the actual contact it is the fact that the brain is floating in cerebral spinal fluid, and when one stops suddenly with mass deceleration the brain then makes contact with the skull.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Mouth guards have never been shown to do anything, much like helmets actually. It isn't the actual contact it is the fact that the brain is floating in cerebral spinal fluid, and when one stops suddenly with mass deceleration the brain then makes contact with the skull.

I agree, however at one time it was accepted that wearing of mouth guards did reduce concussions. I heard it all the time during the 90's playing higher level rugby.

In fact 2 years ago at a coaches meeting for lacrosse I heard the same thing. A member of Red Deer Lacrosse stipulated that all kids needed to wear mouth guards to avoid concussion. When I questioned her, she could not respond.

I would suggest that the opinion on mouth guards and what they do regarding concussions is misunderstood by many in the populace.