Canadian Government abandons falsely-accused Citizen in Indonesia

[driveway]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...ling-questions

I've been following this for a while as the school I work at competes against the International School of Jakarta in athletics and other disciplines. It's a ridiculous farce and the Canadian government has been abysmal throughout. Both the American and British governments made it crystal clear to Indonesia that their citizens were not to be dragged into this ludicrous gong-show, but Canada's been essentially completely MIA.

[Darkwater]

He's a pig.

[driveway]

Not only is he not a pig, but nothing actually ever happened to the child in question, it's a money-grab by the mother.

edit: I suppose I should clarify, as it is technically a legal matter. He is, almost certainly, innocent. There is very strong evidence that nothing ever happened to the child and a huge amount of circumstantial and hearsay evidence that it is a money grab by the mom.

What is really, really upsetting is how utterly absent and unhelpful the Canadian government has been, particularly when compared to the very strong stances taken by the Australian, American, and British governments when it seemed like some of their citizens may have been dragged into the mess.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by driveway

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...ling-questions

I've been following this for a while as the school I work at competes against the International School of Jakarta in athletics and other disciplines. It's a ridiculous farce and the Canadian government has been abysmal throughout. Both the American and British governments made it crystal clear to Indonesia that their citizens were not to be dragged into this ludicrous gong-show, but Canada's been essentially completely MIA.

What leads you to believe that he is not guilty?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by driveway

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blo...ling-questions

I've been following this for a while as the school I work at competes against the International School of Jakarta in athletics and other disciplines. It's a ridiculous farce and the Canadian government has been abysmal throughout. Both the American and British governments made it crystal clear to Indonesia that their citizens were not to be dragged into this ludicrous gong-show, but Canada's been essentially completely MIA.

What makes you say that the Canadian government has been abysmal throughout? I'm not sure what they could have done before an actual verdict was delivered. Anyway, here is what a CTV article said in August...

Last week, Tracy Bantleman said she met with Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird during his visit in Jakarta, and said she believes that he is “working at the highest levels” to raise the case with Indonesian authorities.
In Bantleman’s letter to Harper, he acknowledges that the Canadian authorities are “aware of my situation” and are working to resolve the matter.

Sometimes 250 million in aid doesn't get you that far.

[Darkwater]

Oh yeah, he NEVER touched the kid. #### you. That sick #### is guilty.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

What leads you to believe that he is not guilty?

Well, the first accusation was against the janitors. The school, JIS, said that they couldn't be held financially responsible for the actions of the janitors as they work for a sub-contractor. As soon as that information came out, a second accusation was made against the teachers, which would make the school financially liable.

The first accusation was that an 8 year old boy was (and this sounds brutal, but it almost certainly isn't true) gang-raped by 5 grown men and then proceeded to attend school as though nothing had happened for the rest of the day, and several subsequent weeks.

The mother of the boy is a former south-east asian prostitute who is currently going through a divorce with her wealthy European husband (who has been essentially silent throughout). Prior to beginning a criminal trial she started a civil suit for 650 million USD against the school. This is when the school said they couldn't be held liable as the janitors were sub-contractors.

Initially, accusations were brought against several teachers, but the Australian, British and American consulates in Indonesia let it be known that they may go as far as withdrawing their embassies should anything happen to their citizens. The Canadian government was 'working behind the scenes' and 'talking at high levels' but did a whole lot of nothing in public. It's been really disappointing

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by driveway

Initially, accusations were brought against several teachers, but the Australian, British and American consulates in Indonesia let it be known that they may go as far as withdrawing their embassies should anything happen to their citizens. The Canadian government was 'working behind the scenes' and 'talking at high levels' but did a whole lot of nothing in public. It's been really disappointing

I have no idea where you are getting the idea Canada is negligent in its dealings with Indonesia. Bantleman is also a British citizen and the Brits tried to help him but had no success....

Both the UK and US embassies have also raised concerns.
The British embassy in Jakarta said it was "aware of concerns about irregularities" in the case, and said it was disappointed it was not allowed access to Bantleman during the trial.

I think you're just making this part of the story up.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by Darkwater

Oh yeah, he NEVER touched the kid. #### you. That sick #### is guilty.

Well alrighty then.

I haven't followed this story much as I've been staying away from the news as much as possible. But, I caught the tail end of a report on this yesterday and I wish I could remember one of the accusations leveled at him. It was so incredibly ridiculous in nature that I turned to my husband and said that it really put everything else in doubt. I'm usually on the side of the child in cases like these, having been molested as a child and knowing the damage that can do but this whole thing rings untrue (read the link and did a little more reading).

[fulham]

This really is a lose lose situation for the government to be involved in. So i don't blame them for doing nothing. If the case really is as frivoulus as you make it out to be, he will win his case.

[GGG]

The Canadian governments only role should be to ensure a fair trial. From that article the evidence considered by the judge seems a little odd. But not considering letters stating the outstanding charactor or witnesses saying how great the guy is seems reasonable. Jerry Sandusky could have lined up witnesses a thousand strong to testify how great of guy he was.

At best these things are he said, she said in which case I tend to side with the kids.

It looks like only one of the victims families is suing the school per the article so it doesn't seem as unbelievable as the OP is making it out to be.

Realy hope the appeal can bring some closure to the issue.

[Kjesse]

The information coming out makes the whole situation sound like a farce, but the problem is all of that information is coming from the Bantleman family. The Indonesian court proceedings aren't made public so it's hard to evaluate what has really been going on. I understand why his family supports him, but that doesn't mean the information they are putting forward is correct.

[driveway]

An example of the kind of thing that has taken place during the trial, is that the testimony of the alleged victims was given without the accused present. This was done to protect the children and is understandable.

However, the testimony of the victims was then sealed. The defence was not allowed access to it. The accused were then asked, under oath, to respond to the accusations, without being allowed to know the specifics of what they were accused of.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by driveway

An example of the kind of thing that has taken place during the trial, is that the testimony of the alleged victims was given without the accused present. This was done to protect the children and is understandable.

However, the testimony of the victims was then sealed. The defence was not allowed access to it. The accused were then asked, under oath, to respond to the accusations, without being allowed to know the specifics of what they were accused of.

Where are you getting your information from? Can you provide some links?

[Nage Waza]

This guy is 100% innocent until there is some evidence proving his guilt. It sickens me time and again people convicting someone with no evidence.

Once we learn more we will know more, but until then, he is innocent.

[Ozy_Flame]

The minute I read that the judge accepted that a "magic stone" was inserted in the child's anus and used that claim with no physical proof or any evidence whatsoever to prosecute Bantleman, it was clearly a sham trial.

Whether he did something or not, the trial seems unfair and poorly executed, with a lot of extra context before, in, and around the case. Seems like a miscarriage of justice to me.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Darkwater

Oh yeah, he NEVER touched the kid. #### you. That sick #### is guilty.

Most of what has been reported suggest the man is innocent. I don't really have a strong opinion one way or the other, but clearly you do. I'm just curious as to what you know or have heard to support your position?

[CaptainCrunch]

From my understanding Baird talked directly to the government there, and the Canadian Government had people following the trial, I don't understand what the family expected the government to do. Its unlikely that the government is going to interfere in the trial, or are they just going to stop the trial and turn him lose because the Canadian government asked nicely.

If he was being held for a undue length of time without charges or due process the Canadian government could do more, but once the charges are laid and he enters their justice system so to speak there's not a whole lot that can be done.

The Government isn't going to send in JTF2 to make a daring rescue, Canadian Lawyers aren't going to flock there to represent him.

They can advise the defendant, they can ask the government of the country in question to help, but most governments can't or won't interfere in a trial as the legal system to an extent has to be separated from undue command interference from the government.

Now that he's convicted and sentenced the government can probably try to negotiate a release to Canadian custody.

But railing at the government here makes no sense and outside of the family if I understand the story changing their story about Canadian involvement. There was involvement and it was at a fairly high ministerial level if the story is to be believed.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by fulham

This really is a lose lose situation for the government to be involved in. So i don't blame them for doing nothing. If the case really is as frivoulus as you make it out to be, he will win his case.

But what if he didn't win his case and the trial process was potentially unfair?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by fatso

But what if he didn't win his case and the trial process was potentially unfair?

Then the government can probably appeal directly to what passes for the justice member over there to review the case and to work on bringing the prisoner home to complete his sentence. At its most extreme they can go after the diplomatic relationship over there, and apply sanctions and reduce aid. Are you saying this is what they should have done?

But the Canadian government can't do much during the trial, they can make sure that they have adequate council, and observe the trial but that's about it.