Accounting

[VictoryJuice]

I'm currently 3 years into my Bachelor of Management degree and looking for some advice/tips.

After this year I need to pick what I would like to "specialize" in (ex: acct,finance,supply chain, marketing, HR..etc). I've taken a couple accounting classes and have enjoyed them but I really don't want a job where all I do is sit down and crunch numbers all day.

If I were to pick accounting I think I would try and go for a CPA once I graduate.

So is there any accountants here that could shed some light on what there day to day work is like? Did you get a CPA? Are they beneficial?

Thanks.

[GGG]

I've heard it involves daily helicopter rides

[fundmark19]

There are 100s of different type of accountants so can't really give you a typical day to day activities. Also cpa is vague since there are 3 different paths and depending which path you go also changes the type of job you will have.

Not trying to be rude but it's a pretty hard to just give you a typical day without knowing more context. Normally you are looking at Accounts Recievable or accounts payable jobs as a starting point in your career unless you go for the audit route of your cpa

Also if you want to be an accountant take your cpa without a professional designation is really going to limit your ability to move up in organizations

[Weitz]

CPA is the only designation now. They were combined.

[The Yen Man]

Remember, the "P" stands for Professional.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by VictoryJuice

but I really don't want a job where all I do is sit down and crunch numbers all day.

I'd say the people who "crunch numbers" all day are either the un-designated accountants, or the CGAs (and some CMAs/CAs). As a CA, I don't think I ever sit and "crunch numbers" all day.

My work involves numbers, sure, but it is mostly managing people, deals, issues, etc.

With all the designations being CPA going forward it will create an interesting change to the industry, as many people who would normally have gone for a CGA/CMA are opting out of getting a designation alltogether. I'd say go for your CPA at a public accounting firm (big4) and then the world is your oyster once you're done.

[Locke]

Yeah, the tedious number crunching is a way of life when you first start. Thats just part of the deal. You have to put in your years in the trenches first then you can delegate that stuff off and do the parts that you enjoy.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by GGG

I've heard it involves daily helicopter rides

That was actually my job once.

[calf]

I don't have much insight on what the new CPA process is like compared to before, but have some general thoughts:

1) With the new CPA designation, your work experience can start in industry or at a public accounting firm. Starting at a firm would mean more hours and less pay to start, but you get pushed harder and get better experience faster, pushing you into better positions and better salaries if/when you decide to move on.

2) I started at a mid-sized firm before moving into a role at a public company...I generally agree with what Ducay says about going big 4. I got lucky landing this role...if you have ambitions to be with a large company at any point, big 4 is looked at differently by those hiring than a smaller firm (rightly or wrongly). But if you want to work at smaller shops, then a smaller firm might be right for you.

3) Firms are generally structured and predictable. You start out doing financial statement audits or quarterly reviews for companies. You start out with easy sections to audit, and over a couple years, move on to the more difficult or complex areas. The work isn't very exciting, but you get pushed to see more, and will rotate between clients, etc. This exposes you to different ways of operating, different industries, which is way better for your development than the day to day work you might get in an entry-level industry position.

Auditing is very much like doing a series of short-term projects. You go in, do your job, learn from it, then move onto the next project. There's not a ton day-to-day about it as the nature and type of work changes based on the situations you're put into.

3) Similar to how the work changes, the staffing dynamic at a firm changes regularly; people above you move on, and people get recruited in below you, which results in a natural promotion progression. So, early on out of university, you are supervising and mentoring people.

Basically, by starting out at a firm, you see a lot and do a lot, and like Ducay says, that opens a lot of doors for you early on.

5) I've also hired people into entry-level accounting positions in industry, who work on their designations at the same time. Like fundmark says, more number crunching, and more day-to-day work. So, you're inputting invoices, doing monthly entries, creating monthly reports...all depending on the company and position you end up in. It's definitely more of a day-to-day, helping to operate the finance/accounting function business type of role.

Because of that, if you end up at a company with less than stellar mentorship out of university, you can be stuck doing the day-to-day work, feeding the machine, and not investing yourself in new skills to advance faster and further. If you work at one with a solid new-grad program, then they will ensure you're gaining new skills and experience...but you still might not be pushed into supervising people as fast, meaning you're doing more number crunching. But like fundmark says, doing your CPA there is still a good idea - not doing so would hold you back.

Also, similar to what others have said, the number crunching will always be there, especially early on. As you move on and up, you do less of the number crunching, and more checking that those who did the number crunching did it right and makes sense, or, you're telling the story of what the numbers mean to the non-number crunchers.

6) The articling/professional accounting ranks is full of ambitious people, so as you can see, the talk is very much on the "if you don't do this, you won't advance, get promoted, or make $100k/year by a certain age". Always make sure to do what you want to do, and don't get caught up in the hype/keeping up with the joneses. That's a recipe for immense career dissatisfaction.

[Ducay]

^ Nailed it on the head.

[Weitz]

Another note, the big 4 throw parties like crazy and drink like a bunch of sailors if that's your thing.

[calf]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Another note, the big 4 throw parties like crazy and drink like a bunch of sailors if that's your thing.

Oh yes, that is huge. When you start out at a firm, even some of the mid-sized ones, you start with a few dozen others fresh out of university. You're all going through the same work/education process, so wind up with an incredible group of friends/business contacts as people move on to different businesses. And so, so much drinking.

[squiggs96]

I articled at at Big 4 and got my CA designation in 2008. I left public practice shortly after and now my day is fairly routine. I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late. I use the side door - that way my boss can't see me, and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour. I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. The thing is, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. It's a problem of motivation, alright? Now if I work my ass off and my company ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I articled at at Big 4 and got my CA designation in 2008. I left public practice shortly after and now my day is fairly routine. I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late. I use the side door - that way my boss can't see me, and, uh, after that I just sorta space out for about an hour. I just stare at my desk; but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch, too. I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work. The thing is, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. It's a problem of motivation, alright? Now if I work my ass off and my company ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation?

Awesome reference

[Kybosh]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Another note, the big 4 throw parties like crazy and drink like a bunch of sailors if that's your thing.

All professional service firms are full of drunk sailors in my experience (accountants, lawyers, bankers etc.). I'm not an accountant, but I work at a big firm...

[DoubleF]

Accounting ranges greatly in the type of work you will do. There are huge variances in the work between Audit, AR/AP/Bookkeeping, Tax, Consulting etc. As others have noted, you will have to earn your stripes. In general, the Big 4 will be able to give you the best exposure to everything and you will be amongst peers chasing your designation, but I like others am still not sure how the whole CPA shift will look like yet.

IMO, I would suggest deciding between Accounting and Finance only. Supply chain, HR and marketing arguably aren't as easily transferable to another career. I also believe they are some of the first to go when the economy is poor.

[fundmark19]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

but I like others am still not sure how the whole CPA shift will look like yet.

I don't think there is going to be a lot of change with the CPA from the conversations I have been having. The only real difference is down the road more people are going to get into an interview by just stating their letters since HR folk won't know the difference. Companies are still going to be looking for the specific route of the designation however you don't need to put that on your resume so a better chance for someone to sell themselves in person vs never getting into the door.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by calf

I don't have much insight on what the new CPA process is like compared to before, but have some general thoughts:

1) With the new CPA designation, your work experience can start in industry or at a public accounting firm. Starting at a firm would mean more hours and less pay to start, but you get pushed harder and get better experience faster, pushing you into better positions and better salaries if/when you decide to move on.

2) I started at a mid-sized firm before moving into a role at a public company...I generally agree with what Ducay says about going big 4. I got lucky landing this role...if you have ambitions to be with a large company at any point, big 4 is looked at differently by those hiring than a smaller firm (rightly or wrongly). But if you want to work at smaller shops, then a smaller firm might be right for you.

3) Firms are generally structured and predictable. You start out doing financial statement audits or quarterly reviews for companies. You start out with easy sections to audit, and over a couple years, move on to the more difficult or complex areas. The work isn't very exciting, but you get pushed to see more, and will rotate between clients, etc. This exposes you to different ways of operating, different industries, which is way better for your development than the day to day work you might get in an entry-level industry position.

Auditing is very much like doing a series of short-term projects. You go in, do your job, learn from it, then move onto the next project. There's not a ton day-to-day about it as the nature and type of work changes based on the situations you're put into.

3) Similar to how the work changes, the staffing dynamic at a firm changes regularly; people above you move on, and people get recruited in below you, which results in a natural promotion progression. So, early on out of university, you are supervising and mentoring people.

Basically, by starting out at a firm, you see a lot and do a lot, and like Ducay says, that opens a lot of doors for you early on.

5) I've also hired people into entry-level accounting positions in industry, who work on their designations at the same time. Like fundmark says, more number crunching, and more day-to-day work. So, you're inputting invoices, doing monthly entries, creating monthly reports...all depending on the company and position you end up in. It's definitely more of a day-to-day, helping to operate the finance/accounting function business type of role.

Because of that, if you end up at a company with less than stellar mentorship out of university, you can be stuck doing the day-to-day work, feeding the machine, and not investing yourself in new skills to advance faster and further. If you work at one with a solid new-grad program, then they will ensure you're gaining new skills and experience...but you still might not be pushed into supervising people as fast, meaning you're doing more number crunching. But like fundmark says, doing your CPA there is still a good idea - not doing so would hold you back.

Also, similar to what others have said, the number crunching will always be there, especially early on. As you move on and up, you do less of the number crunching, and more checking that those who did the number crunching did it right and makes sense, or, you're telling the story of what the numbers mean to the non-number crunchers.

6) The articling/professional accounting ranks is full of ambitious people, so as you can see, the talk is very much on the "if you don't do this, you won't advance, get promoted, or make $100k/year by a certain age". Always make sure to do what you want to do, and don't get caught up in the hype/keeping up with the joneses. That's a recipe for immense career dissatisfaction.

Love how this post is missing bullet point #4. An aptitude test for the OP?

[calf]

But I have 2 #3's...close enough

[BigNumbers]

Your initial post makes me wonder if accounting is for you... While a lot of experienced CA's/CPA's don't do number crunching now - you have to like it and put up with 12-14 hr days of doing it for a few months at a time (Jan-March) for 5+ years (and 8+ hours the rest of the year) before you begin to spend more time managing, and then another 5 years until you're really in a senior position where a large chunk of your time isn't either creating spreadsheets or reviewing them and providing queries back to very junior staff.

So if you "don't like sitting all day crunching numbers" I'd be honest with yourself - can you get through a very busy 5+ years of doing that day in and day out, to see the other side? If not, you'll likely end up like many articling students and quit along the way.