Montreal: "We'll just watch this man die, thank you very much

[jayswin]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...5plE?ocid=iehp

A montreal man, lay dying on a train platform for 16 minutes before anyone did anything. This happens with the bystander effect, I get it, but this is certainly an extreme case, as you had;

- 40 people pass by

- 3 metro drivers pass by

- first responders were captured waiting three minutes before CPR was attempted

Just a terrible situation all around, too bad we couldn't punt Montreal into another country. Brutal.

When first responders finally arrived, he was deprived of oxygen for another three minutes before anyone made an effort to breathe life back into his body. He died in hospital at 4:21 a.m. on Jan. 17, 2014.

The coroner’s report into Mr. Hebrich’s death, published in December and first obtained by La Presse this week, is difficult to read and lays partial blame for his demise squarely at the feet of his fellow Montrealers.

“At the end of the day, there are not many positive things to write about this rescue attempt,” says coroner Jacques Ramsay, making little effort to hide his dismay. “The indifference of the passengers says a lot about the apathy of citizens.”

[T@T]

Originally Posted by flameswin

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada...5plE?ocid=iehp

A montreal man, lay dying on a train platform for 16 minutes before anyone did anything. This happens with the bystander effect, I get it, but this is certainly an extreme case, as you had;

- 40 people pass by

- 3 metro drivers pass by

- first responders were captured waiting three minutes before CPR was attempted

Just a terrible situation all around, too bad we couldn't punt Montreal into another country. Brutal.

Personally I don't get it at all, if a person is in trouble and your able bodied you help...period.shame on them. I hope they have nightmares.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by T@T

Personally I don't get it at all, if a person is in trouble and your able bodied you help...period.shame on them. I hope they have nightmares.

Sorry, to clarify, I meant I get that the bystander effect happens. Like you, I personally couldn't imagine letting myself become part of it and think of those that get stuck in bystander effects to be pretty sh**ty people.

How do people seriously allow themselves to watch someone in medical distress for an extended period of time? I get how the bystander effect could make people stand around for a period of seconds while everyone panics and people look around to see if someone else is going to jump in.

But once you get into minutes, **** that, you don't get to call it being part of the bystander effect anymore, you're just a crappy person, unwilling to help someone in distress.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Mistaken for a drunk, who is passed out.

I could see how it could happen quite easily. Sad, but true.

[T@T]

Ok no probs, I remember in my 20's coming upon an accident on memorial drive involving 2 people on a motorcycle, people standing around while one guy was screaming in pain from a bad leg injury,I'm not sure if using my belt to tie off his wound helped a lot as the EMT's showed up a few minutes later but he lived and sent me a thank you note. sadly his GF died from massive injurys.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Just finished listening to a chapter of a book called "influence" by Robert Cialdini that covers this specific effect. It is not apathy, it is an effect called social proof. When an emergency like this happens in front of many witnesses, it is because there are many witnesses that nothing happens. There is confusion that there is an actual emergency, everyone looks around for social cues of what to do, so when they see no one else responding they do not respond themselves. It has been documented in many, many cases. This is a human condition and had nothing to do with Montrealers.

For the record, if you ever find yourself in a crowd suffering from a stroke or something similar, your chances of getting help improve massively if you can single put ONE individual and ask them to call an ambulance.

[Bagor]

As sad as this is it's worth pointing out that the article is just a terrible bit of sensationalist journalism.
e.g.

bleeding from the head and not breathing, for nearly 20 minutes.

Not breathing for nearly 20 minutes = stone cold dead.
It then appears to attack the paramedics for incompetence and suggest that he wasn't breathing when they arrived and they delayed.

When first responders finally arrived, he was deprived of oxygen for another three minutes before anyone made an effort to breathe life back into his body. He died in hospital at 4:21 a.m. on Jan. 17, 2014.

The first things these guys do is assess the airway, breathing and circulation so to suggest it took three minutes before he was given oxygen to assist him is misleading. I'm pretty confident that if they had assessed him and found no air entering the body that would have been #1 priority.

That he died later that night supports the theory that he was alive when they reached him. So is essence this article is saying that the poor fella didn't take a breath for 23 minutes yet managed to hang in there for at least another four and a half hours.

[Peanut]

I feel like if people saw him get hit in the head by the train, someone would have responded (or at least, I feel like I would have called 911 in that situation.). If nobody saw the actual incident, I could see that people assumed it was just a passed out drunk or homeless person. I know I don't check on every sleeping homeless person I come across in the street or at a c-train station.

Regardless the whole situation is pretty sad.

[Mike F]

It took 16 minutes before paramedics arrived.

If that's 16 minutes from incident to paramedics arriving, then it is sensationalistic journalism. That's not a fantastic time, but the whole "He was seen by at least 40 passersby who glanced curiously in his direction and apparently decided he was just another drunk who had passed out" makes it sound like no one did anything. Clearly someone called 911.

[Rerun]

I can't believe that nobody was willing to perform mouth to mouth CPR on a homeless drunk (with blood in his nose and mouth) who was unconscious on a subway platform. The best that someone did was call 911 for help...

What's wrong with those Montrealers? I agree.. punt Montreal into another country. No way this would have happened in Calgary.

[jayswin]

What happened to having me on ignore there, big guy?

[jayswin]

Actually, it probably doesn't work when I start a new thread, I'm assuming?

[polak]

Stupid article is stupide

[NuclearFart]

Maybe all the spectators were up to date on the futility of performing CPR.

[EldrickOnIce]

This is the release of the coroner's report. The incident took place a year ago.
It is sad, but true... But at least partially understandable. Happened in the wee hours of the morning in a remote metro station. People are probably scared, and as the metro is underground, there is usually no cell service until exiting. And as has been said, it's a drunk homeless man bleeding from mouth and nose. 911 is the only real answer for the average citizen.
Hopefully this report prompts a better system of reporting/responding from the metro system itself, if it failed here.

It reads like Fox news article.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Maybe all the spectators were up to date on the futility of performing CPR.

Futility?

Are you suggesting that it is absolutely pointless to perform CPR? That there is a zero percent success rate? That it's totally ineffective? A useless act?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Futility?

Are you suggesting that it is absolutely pointless to perform CPR? That there is a zero percent success rate? That it's totally ineffective? A useless act?

It's not futile or useless. It serves a great purpose. But the first thing they teach you now in classes is that CPR won't bring someone back to life as was commonly thought. It's simply a tool to slightly extend someone's life until medical assistance arrives.

Having a medical emergency in a crowded place is the worst place it can happen. People stand around and do nothing. I've had to drag a guy off the train, perform CPR on him and call the ambulance while everyone on the LRT watched me do it because no one else would step up, right in the middle of morning rush hour. In a room with a single person or two, it's much more likely they will step up and help you.

[Locke]

Was he wearing a Leaf's jersey?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I'd like to think I'd be a better person but chances are, if I'm being 100% honest with myself, I wouldn't perform cpr on a homeless guy who was bleeding from the mouth and nose. Sounds terrible, but it is what it is. Awful situation.

[chummer]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I'd like to think I'd be a better person but chances are, if I'm being 100% honest with myself, I wouldn't perform cpr on a homeless guy who was bleeding from the mouth and nose. Sounds terrible, but it is what it is. Awful situation.

Well do you mean CPR or mouth to mouth?
Even with CPR the chances of him living are something like 2%.
What he needed was a defibrillator and that would be the first thing I would
look for.