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Karl · 01-06-2015, 03:17 PM

Don't agree with everything here but an interesting read anyway.

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/1/6/rand...-half#comments

FBI · 01-06-2015, 03:45 PM

Wow that's a pile on Colborne article.. I think Colborne is coming around and isn't hit his stride yet..

GioforPM · 01-06-2015, 04:18 PM

I think the Colborne- Glencross comparison shows the weakness of shots as a possession stat. I always used to think of a possession player being like Datsyuk, who carried the puck a lot, and cycled with Zetterberg for a great shot. Now it seems like a possession player is a guy who shoots from any angle. That's Glencross.

This is not a criticism of either guy, but I do think Colborne has been effective since his return.

Ashasx · 01-06-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think the Colborne- Glencross comparison shows the weakness of shots as a possession stat. I always used to think of a possession player being like Datsyuk, who carried the puck a lot, and cycled with Zetterberg for a great shot. Now it seems like a possession player is a guy who shoots from any angle. That's Glencross.

This is not a criticism of either guy, but I do think Colborne has been effective since his return.

The idea is that, on average, a player with strong puck possession will see his line direct more pucks towards the net.

It's a pretty sound assumption.

GioforPM · 01-06-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The idea is that, on average, a player with strong puck possession will see his line direct more pucks towards the net.

It's a pretty sound assumption.

I understand the assumption. I also think it's not entirely accurate when you look at individual players. When I see Glencross I don't see a puck possession guy. And it gets odder because he and Colborne now play on the same line quite often.

darthma · 01-06-2015, 04:48 PM

So Granlund is struggling visually.

Not a bad article, though the numbers make it a eye-glazing read. Regardless, I like to read stuff on the Flames so I'll take it. It's pretty exciting that we're contending for a playoff spot. Not many here thought that would be the case. Aaron Ward is a soothsayer.

FlameZilla · 01-06-2015, 05:00 PM

Byron on the top line? Is there an advanced-stats reason for that?

Colborne has shown some jump recently and I despite his Corsi stats I believe he's getting better every game.

GioforPM · 01-06-2015, 05:07 PM

I don't think Colborne's even had enough games to make a Corsi case for or against. Too small a sample size.

Nehkara · 01-06-2015, 05:19 PM

I think Colborne needs more time before you make any case for or against on him but personally, from going to the games and watching them on TV... I like his play.

I do not like Glencross' play. He looks lazy and I think he is much more a benefactor of "lady luck" than Colborne.

Just my $0.02.

I think Glencross should be moved at the deadline if he will waive his NMC, free up more room for kids.

GioforPM · 01-06-2015, 05:22 PM

I like Colborne's game when he is on. I think he could be a poor man's Joe Thornton - protecting the puck down low and feeding the slot.

savardandjokinen · 01-06-2015, 07:38 PM

Lol jooris won't be 4th line/ sent down, the staff likes him too much and he might be the hardest worker out there. Why would we send him down?

killer_carlson · 01-06-2015, 07:52 PM

not only that, Jooris taking that dumpy stall without any reports of whining is a good indicator of his character.

handgroen · 01-07-2015, 08:06 AM

"Now the struggle for the coaching staff will be, how to increase the shots for without allowing more shots against."

Pretty sure the coaching staff is not telling players to shoot from any angle so the team can bolster their shots for numbers.
Really growing tired of the advanced stats of late, seems to be a huge gulf between the numbers and the reality of what it takes or means to win hockey games.

Street Pharmacist · 01-07-2015, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handgroen

"Now the struggle for the coaching staff will be, how to increase the shots for without allowing more shots against."

Pretty sure the coaching staff is not telling players to shoot from any angle so the team can bolster their shots for numbers.
Really growing tired of the advanced stats of late, seems to be a huge gulf between the numbers and the reality of what it takes or means to win hockey games.

That's not really true. Everyone would agree that you shouldn't take shots to bolster your stats, but it also should be obvious that you win more when you don't get outshot every game

GioforPM · 01-07-2015, 10:24 AM

I think the improvement on the 4th line with Stajan on it may help the shots against. They tended to pile up before where the 4th line got trapped and the enemy got multiple shots in a row.

Unfortunately this is also a 3rd pairing problem, and that one hasn't been solved yet.

Karl · 01-07-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think the improvement on the 4th line with Stajan on it may help the shots against. They tended to pile up before where the 4th line got trapped and the enemy got multiple shots in a row.

Unfortunately this is also a 3rd pairing problem, and that one hasn't been solved yet.

If you're talking about 3rd D paring problem, absolutely.

It would help a lot if Hartley would not put Smid & Engelland together since they are a very similar style of defenceman and have the exact same weaknesses. With them together, the problems are magnified because of this.

GioforPM · 01-07-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

If you're talking about 3rd D paring problem, absolutely.

It would help a lot if Hartley would not put Smid & Engelland together since they are a very similar style of defenceman and have the exact same weaknesses. With them together, the problems are magnified because of this.

That's what I'm talking about. The bottom D seems to opt to swallow the puc. Yes it's better than a bad pass, but they don't seem to have the skill to make a good quick pass to break out. And when they swallow the puck they lose over 50% of the ensuing battle, leading to a loss of possession. Lots of times I think - "OK the D has the puck, we are in good shape", only to see Engelland go behind the net and basically invite a forechecker to get him.

Karl · 01-07-2015, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's what I'm talking about. The bottom D seems to opt to swallow the puc. Yes it's better than a bad pass, but they don't seem to have the skill to make a good quick pass to break out. And when they swallow the puck they lose over 50% of the ensuing battle, leading to a loss of possession. Lots of times I think - "OK the D has the puck, we are in good shape", only to see Engelland go behind the net and basically invite a forechecker to get him.

Exactly. If Hartley would, for example, put Engelland alongside Russell & Smid paired with Wideman, their weaknesses would be minimized better.

By doing this, they'd have a good puck mover in Russell and a somewhat decent puck mover in Wideman playing alongside Engelland & Smid, allowing Engelland & Smid to complement their partners somewhat better.

Bandwagon In Flames · 01-07-2015, 10:48 AM

Well written article for the most part, but it seems the writer looked more at the stats and didn't watch enough games.

I disagree with re-signing GlenX if we could get a pick or young roster player for him at the deadline.

I also disagree with the Colborne hate. He's becoming an effective RWer and his poor possession results are due to being a passing machine at the start of the year (8 assists in 9 games I believe). It's also a result of him being ineffective in his time at centre and coming back from injury when everyone else is in peak condition.

As for the second half, the Flames couldn't be in a better position. Finally healthy, have already faced adversity and are hungry as ever. Not to mention this team is full of young developing players who are getting more confident as the year progresses.

Gaskal · 01-07-2015, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karl

Exactly. If Hartley would, for example, put Engelland alongside Russell & Smid paired with Wideman, their weaknesses would be minimized better.

By doing this, they'd have a good puck mover in Russell and a somewhat decent puck mover in Wideman playing alongside Engelland & Smid, allowing Engelland & Smid to complement their partners somewhat better.

Didn't Engelland find some decent chemistry with Russell in the preseason? Should give that combo a try again.