Should I pay these guys? Legal Question..

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Hi folks,

So I needed to move a few pieces of furniture back in February. I found a company online and got them to do the relocation. It was an extremely difficult and infuriating process that took over 6 weeks longer than promised.

Needless to say I was pretty unhappy with them.

The catch is, that when the move was complete they didn't actually ask me to pay anything.. And after the hassles and stress they put me through, I wasn't about to go about hassling them for an invoice.

Cut to now, and the company's UK operations have folded. They are being run out of Germany now and ZEE GERMANS have come asking for the money. I requested a discount because of the trouble and they are only offering a discount of 10%.

I'm not sure about the laws here but with the company changing hands and everything - what can this German company do? Do I actually have to pay them? I would more willing to comply if they lowered the amount as 10% for my trouble just doesn't seem fair. I tried calling them but they no longer have a number in the UK.

Anyone with any legal expertise care to comment here?

[CroFlames]

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.

In my business experience though, it all depends on the amount. I'm willing to bet if it's a small amount (in their eyes) they would pursue you a little, but then it would fizzle out and no one wants to go to court over peanuts.

If you owe them 100k, then you should pay but fight tooth and nail for discounts. Or pay in tiny installments.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

The answer is "probably".

[Makarov]

My practical advice: (1) retain an actual lawyer (who will be regulated by the Law Society and will have errors and omissions insurance) rather than solicit legal advice from random and totally unaccountable people on the Internet; and (b) be careful when making a bunch of admissions on the Internet regarding something that may end up in litigation.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Makarov

My practical advice: (1) retain an actual lawyer (who will be regulated by the Law Society and will have errors and omissions insurance) rather than solicit legal advice from random and totally unaccountable people on the Internet; and (b) be careful when making a bunch of admissions on the Internet regarding something that may end up in litigation.

Why? It's not like Germans can read English.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Makarov

My practical advice: (1) retain an actual lawyer (who will be regulated by the Law Society and will have errors and omissions insurance) rather than solicit legal advice from random and totally unaccountable people on the Internet; and (b) be careful when making a bunch of admissions on the Internet regarding something that may end up in litigation.

Why can't he ask here and retain a lawyer? Is there some harm in asking here? If I tell him that his best bet is to tell them to eff off, can I be held liable? Clearly there is no expectation of proper legal advice, just random internet opinion.

Are there examples of courts coming after people who ask general questions on the internet?

What kind of trouble could he get in? Is it illegal to ask for informal legal advice on the internet? What if he just googles it? Could those records be used against him?

Why would asking for advice lead to trouble? If he follows bad advice that could be problematic, but why is even asking the question a bad idea?

[troutman]

Courts don't come after people.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by troutman

Courts don't come after people.

Are you being intentionally pedantic? Or does it just come naturally as a lawyer?

[OMG!WTF!]

Tell them Germans you want your gold and paintings back. Seriously though if you really don't think you should pay them, then wait until they get a lawyer and send you a couple letters. Make them do the work they should have done properly in the first place. I can't imagine they'd bother with it.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by SoulOfTheFlame

Hi folks,

So I needed to move a few pieces of furniture back in February. I found a company online and got them to do the relocation. It was an extremely difficult and infuriating process that took over 6 weeks longer than promised.

Needless to say I was pretty unhappy with them.

The catch is, that when the move was complete they didn't actually ask me to pay anything.. And after the hassles and stress they put me through, I wasn't about to go about hassling them for an invoice.

Cut to now, and the company's UK operations have folded. They are being run out of Germany now and ZEE GERMANS have come asking for the money. I requested a discount because of the trouble and they are only offering a discount of 10%.

I'm not sure about the laws here but with the company changing hands and everything - what can this German company do? Do I actually have to pay them? I would more willing to comply if they lowered the amount as 10% for my trouble just doesn't seem fair. I tried calling them but they no longer have a number in the UK.

Anyone with any legal expertise care to comment here?

Unless the original owners sent you a letter discharging your debt then you still owe the full amount, the company changing hands makes no difference, they bought your debt along with the company.

[mrkajz44]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

The answer is "probably".

Pretty much every legal / tax / whatever question asked on CP can be answered like this. Everything is too fact specific to get a good response.

I think the real question here is "do you think you owe?" Since you already talked to them and asked for a discount, then I think you already know the answer to that.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Why can't he ask here and retain a lawyer? Is there some harm in asking here? If I tell him that his best bet is to tell them to eff off, can I be held liable? Clearly there is no expectation of proper legal advice, just random internet opinion.

Are there examples of courts coming after people who ask general questions on the internet?

What kind of trouble could he get in? Is it illegal to ask for informal legal advice on the internet? What if he just googles it? Could those records be used against him?

Why would asking for advice lead to trouble? If he follows bad advice that could be problematic, but why is even asking the question a bad idea?

Well, asking for advice with no intention of relying on it seems like a giant waste of time for everyone involved. That's probably enough to qualify as a bad idea.

As I already noted, asking for advice with the intention of possibly relying on it is an even worse idea.

Making admissions that might be used as evidence against you in a trial is just icing on the bad idea cake (so to speak).

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Unless the original owners sent you a letter discharging your debt then you still owe the full amount, the company changing hands makes no difference, they bought your debt along with the company.

Yeah but there could be a reasonable expectation of time for payment. If the moving company implied that payment wasn't due because of the cruddy work and never tried to collect on it, them being bought could be moot.

Surely there can't be an expectation of payment indefinitely if no effort was made by the original company while they were still operating.

On the other hand, the new owners, it is in their best interests to try and collect as much outstanding debt as possible.

But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer. We're probably all gonna get sued now.

[trumpethead]

You should send the Germans a couple of pizzas and couple cases of beer. This is what the majority of humankind would pay for moving a "few pieces of furniture"?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah but there could be a reasonable expectation of time for payment. If the moving company implied that payment wasn't due because of the cruddy work and never tried to collect on it, them being bought could be moot.

Surely there can't be an expectation of payment indefinitely if no effort was made by the original company while they were still operating.

On the other hand, the new owners, it is in their best interests to try and collect as much outstanding debt as possible.

But what do I know, I'm not a lawyer. We're probably all gonna get sued now.

The bills only four or five months old, i think you'd need to be in the years to decades level before you could argue that

[OMG!WTF!]

Would the proper course of action be something like you post the amount of the bill to the court and then sue them for the damages you incurred by their shoddy services? Like they damaged this, lost that, caused you to have to buy new beds etc? Avoiding court would be smart so you could just basically give them a bill, pay the difference or sue for the balance they owe you. At the very least you could respond like that with proof and then send them what you think you owe them. They will probably go quietly into the night as Germans are known to do.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

They will probably go quietly into the night as Germans are known to do.

I feel like you grew up with different history textbooks than I did.

[AcGold]

Depends whether or not a contract was broken. Did you agree on a time frame?

[Amethyst]

Tell them that 10% discount is not sufficient due to all the problems and offer to pay 50% (or whatever amount). Maybe they will agree just to be done with it?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Well, asking for advice with no intention of relying on it seems like a giant waste of time for everyone involved. That's probably enough to qualify as a bad idea.

As I already noted, asking for advice with the intention of possibly relying on it is an even worse idea.

Making admissions that might be used as evidence against you in a trial is just icing on the bad idea cake (so to speak).

Oh noes boys! We're wasting our valuable time on CP at the end of July!

You dont go into FoI much do you?

Come on NHL, drop the puck already.

The NHL should adopt a minimum wins system where teams that dont have the minimum number of wins have to keep playing each other until they get them and theres only one left.

Anyways, sorry I didnt mean to take that out on you specifically but I've always disliked the 'waste of time' theory when it concerns CP. Thats sort of what its here for.