Military procurement/kit thread

[Zulu29]

IgiTangs thread got hijacked so I figured I'd make this thread to discuss procurement stuff.

[Zulu29]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2014-03-07

Not great news again for the F35. We'll never be able to afford an air superiority fighter as well as a multi-role fighter so maybe we don't need something like the F35 after all? Something cheaper like the Gripen may suit our needs more.

[CaptainCrunch]

We function differently from the U.S. airforce which still thinks dedicated fighters for dedicated jobs.

Canada can't afford a air force that has the best air to air and the best air to ground fighters. They need the best fighter that can balance all of these roles and last us 30 or more years.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

We function differently from the U.S. airforce which still thinks dedicated fighters for dedicated jobs.

Canada can't afford a air force that has the best air to air and the best air to ground fighters. They need the best fighter that can balance all of these roles and last us 30 or more years.

And in your opinion, which would that be?

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm still on the F-35 side right now, dependent on finalized cost under a new bid system and if they can solve the problems involving the helmet.

[SebC]

Isn't the F-35 still the best option in the air superiority role that we have? What are we going to do, steal the F-22?

... we should steal the F-22.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think it is, and its on the bleeding edge of sensor, link and stealth technology that we should be looking at because of our 30 year requirement.

[Zulu29]

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/#!/content/1.2563948/

More problems and delays with the ship building program.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think it is, and its on the bleeding edge of sensor, link and stealth technology that we should be looking at because of our 30 year requirement.

What about a smaller fleet of F35's to do the dirty work like flying into the lion's den (Libya) and a fleet of other aircraft like the Gripen for interceptor/patrol duties?

[CaptainCrunch]

To expensive for this country to have two different fighter systems. you'd have to set up multiple logistics chains, multiple flight schools, multiple maintenance training programs.

If we're going to have an air force of 60 planes its going to be a consolidated concept.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

To expensive for this country to have two different fighter systems. you'd have to set up multiple logistics chains, multiple flight schools, multiple maintenance training programs.

If we're going to have an air force of 60 planes its going to be a consolidated concept.

60 just does not seem like enough. A few accidents here and there and they'll be running short in no time. I thought 90 CF18s was bad....

[CaptainCrunch]

That's the plan to have a small but very advanced and highly trained airforce with the best equipment possible.

[Barbecue]

I have nothing to add but this discussion reminds me of my hundreds of hours playing UN Squadron on SNES

[btimbit]

When Canada gets their F-35's, or any new plane, are they going to stop using the CF-18's immediately or use both for a while?

[CaptainCrunch]

The F-18 will be retired very quickly after the transition training

[photon]

The things I wonder about the F-35 are how long the stealth advantage is going to actually be an advantage, single engine, and how good it actually is as a fighter.

If I was going to consider an alternative and money wasn't the biggest concern, the Typhoon might be my second choice, as I think the Typhoon might have the edge on the F-35 as a fighter (and air defense is going to be its primary role isn't it?), and it has the two engines. The Typhoon has a higher top speed, a thrust to weight ratio of over 1.0, and the ability to supercruise (F35 claims a short supercruise ability) so the Typhoon will have an advantage in long range BVR as well.

I don't know if the Typhoon matches the F35 for air to ground but I've read that the more recent Typhoons improve on this.

However longevity and cost are factors too, Typhoon is older, and while I think initial cost of Typhoons are cheaper than F-35's, total cost might be pretty close.

Too bad can't have both

[CaptainCrunch]

The one versus 2 engines to me is a non issue, the reliability of jet fighter engines is through the charts. It also makes engine maintenance replacement easier and cheaper.

The typhoon is a very nice jet, but the F-35's command of airspace through data linking and through the glass cockpit and with the Stealth Capability means that the F-35 is designed to sneak up on an enemy and punch it in the starfish before they're aware of it.

At least that's the theory.

[GoinAllTheWay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The F-18 will be retired very quickly after the transition training

And become our new Snow Birds!

How hey kept THOSE planes going for so long is impressive.

[Bindair Dundat]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

And become our new Snow Birds!

How hey kept THOSE planes going for so long is impressive.

Single J85 and built out of riveted sheet metal. Docile fight regime, dozens of retired trainers to cycle through 431 as the others "time out". Pull the next lowest timer out of the hangar in Rockliffe, paint it up, slap a refurbed J85 into it...rinse and repeat, until you run out of airframes. End of mystery. We (Canadair) built a buttload of these things and we still have quite a few kicking around in storage.
Someone has probably tracked and documented all of the "tails" flown by 431 Sqd. over the years. I'm too lazy to look.

[Zulu29]

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/new...ate=2014-03-12

Pretty damning article on the state of our navy.