Alberta Blue Cross or Alternatives?

[TheGrimm]

Does anyone know if these plans tend to be worthwhile for a family of three? The wife and I are both self-employed and we are adding an addition to the family in a little over a month. I can't help but wonder if it would make more sense just to set aside a bit of cash each month for medical/dental etc, but am curious whether anyone thinks these are worthwhile?

Neither of us has any health issues or pre-existing conditions.

Is Alberta Blue Cross the best option?

[ah123]

With a baby coming, I would highly recommend getting something like Blue Cross. Things can crop up really fast and unexpectedly with a baby, and IMO, it is better to have that extra safety net.

[socktape]

I would look into some other companies that may be able to provide better coverage for cheaper. I would look into the plans at sunlife, manulife etc. to see what they can offer you. I know at a corporate level they are definitely a better deal than Blue Cross.

[HockeyIlliterate]

As an non-Canadian, what is the purpose of Alberta Blue Cross (or similar providers)? What does it cover that you don't get through the Alberta health care system? Just dental and drug benefits?

[Hessen]

Definately look around. My wife searched around and settled on one out of Sask? It did work very well with direct use for dental and eyeglasses (not having to pay first and submit forms). We used it for over a year while my wife worked casual.

http://www.gms.ca/health-insurance

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

As an non-Canadian, what is the purpose of Alberta Blue Cross (or similar providers)? What does it cover that you don't get through the Alberta health care system? Just dental and drug benefits?

Pretty much. Our health care system covers surgery and doctor visits etc however medication, dental and most vision costs and anything deemed "elective" is definitely not covered.

[cracher]

I'm self-employed too, with 5 people working for me. I found it better (and cheaper, once you factor in the tax benefits) to go through Pacific First out of BC. You can set up expense accounts for everyone to use for anything medical related... Everyone seems to like it. For those that hardly use benefits, it's usually a rush to get massages, prescription sunglasses and orthotics in December.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by socktape

I would look into some other companies that may be able to provide better coverage for cheaper. I would look into the plans at sunlife, manulife etc. to see what they can offer you. I know at a corporate level they are definitely a better deal than Blue Cross.

At a corporate level they would definitely be cheaper than blue cross because you're probably under a group plan. Blue Cross is hard to beat even for the insurance companies if you're looking at Price only.

Grimm you should be looking at what part of the plans are more important to you, will your family be planning on using dental more? prescription drugs more? vision care more? are alternative health providers (acupuncture, massage, etc.) important? as each company has slightly different maximums and coverage with various plans (ie. Blue Cross has 80% coverage with their highest plan, Great West Life has 90% coverage but both are max $10k per year). There's a ton of research, and lots of little differences sometimes like dispensing fees for drugs you have to pay each time, how much is the deductibles for dental, etc.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by cracher

I'm self-employed too, with 5 people working for me. I found it better (and cheaper, once you factor in the tax benefits) to go through Pacific First out of BC. You can set up expense accounts for everyone to use for anything medical related... Everyone seems to like it. For those that hardly use benefits, it's usually a rush to get massages, prescription sunglasses and orthotics in December.

Sounds like you have a PHSP private health spending plan setup rather than a traditional extended health plan. While this is an alternative, it's weakness is that it sounds like from Grimm's case, he would have to pay all of it out of pocket every time, and while there are tax benefits your wallet won't notice the difference when you need to pay upfront. And if there was a major thing to happen where you need either tons of prescriptions or tons of special medical equipment you're still paying for it which can be a big burden.

[TheGrimm]

How about something like this? http://www.olympiatrust.com/landing/

If I am reading it correctly I am able to cover medical expenses for my family under my corporate account and then claim it as a business expense? I assume the expense becomes a taxable benefit for each of my employees or executives that use it?

[cracher]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Sounds like you have a PHSP private health spending plan setup rather than a traditional extended health plan. While this is an alternative, it's weakness is that it sounds like from Grimm's case, he would have to pay all of it out of pocket every time, and while there are tax benefits your wallet won't notice the difference when you need to pay upfront. And if there was a major thing to happen where you need either tons of prescriptions or tons of special medical equipment you're still paying for it which can be a big burden.

Yeah, PHSP is what it's called. I am not familiar with the specifics because I don't deal with any of this directly.

Absolutely true that trouble can happen with a PHSP if something major goes wrong. However, I think the same applies for Blue Cross... For example, try to get them to pay for certain biologics (ie Remicaide for rheumatoid arthritis) or bone stimulators for non-healing fractures. They will find a way to fine-print themselves out of responsibility.

Overall, though, I agree in that it's less risky with a traditional plan. In my case, my family and I (and staff) are fairly healthy and not injury-prone so I'll keep rolling the dice with a PHSP.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

How about something like this? http://www.olympiatrust.com/landing/

If I am reading it correctly I am able to cover medical expenses for my family under my corporate account and then claim it as a business expense? I assume the expense becomes a taxable benefit for each of my employees or executives that use it?

Not quite, the employer (you) pays all the expenses and it's expensed by your company and employees get the reimbursement tax free.

Example with a 10% admin charge: Employee pays $100 and gives Employer Receipt, Employer sends $110 + Receipt to PHSP company, PHSP companys sends $100 tax free to employee and Tax Receipt to Employer.

Here is a good explanation of how a phsp works from one of the company's:
http://www.customcare.ca/health-care...does-phsp-work

But as a Sole Proprietor (i'm assuming), you and your family's limits are those that you set for your employees. So if you give employees a limit of $500, that's what you and your family get as well.

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by CarlW

Not quite, the employer (you) pays all the expenses and it's expensed by your company and employees get the reimbursement tax free.

Example with a 10% admin charge: Employee pays $100 and gives Employer Receipt, Employer sends $110 + Receipt to PHSP company, PHSP companys sends $100 tax free to employee and Tax Receipt to Employer.

Here is a good explanation of how a phsp works from one of the company's:
http://www.customcare.ca/health-care...does-phsp-work

But as a Sole Proprietor (i'm assuming), you and your family's limits are those that you set for your employees. So if you give employees a limit of $500, that's what you and your family get as well.

So the main advantage to this seems to be to keep the costs of routine stuff to a minimum. If something big were to come up I'd still be footing the bill however I would get significant tax breaks to my corporation by doing it this way. Seems like a pretty decent option but those 10% admin fee's are gross.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by TheGrimm

So the main advantage to this seems to be to keep the costs of routine stuff to a minimum. If something big were to come up I'd still be footing the bill however I would get significant tax breaks to my corporation by doing it this way. Seems like a pretty decent option but those 10% admin fee's are gross.

You basically save money because your company pays it and gets tax benefits, and you get reimbursed tax free. Obviously you still come out ahead everything considered even with the 10% admin fees compared to if you didn't have a PHSP. Now I have seen 5% fees from smaller companies that do this but they're like a husband and wife team operating out of their home office or something similarly small, but all the big companies are about 10% (i have seen one super ripoff of 13%).

Consider the Pros and Cons to this choice vs Personal Extended Health Plans.

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by cracher

Yeah, PHSP is what it's called. I am not familiar with the specifics because I don't deal with any of this directly.

Absolutely true that trouble can happen with a PHSP if something major goes wrong. However, I think the same applies for Blue Cross... For example, try to get them to pay for certain biologics (ie Remicaide for rheumatoid arthritis) or bone stimulators for non-healing fractures. They will find a way to fine-print themselves out of responsibility.

Overall, though, I agree in that it's less risky with a traditional plan. In my case, my family and I (and staff) are fairly healthy and not injury-prone so I'll keep rolling the dice with a PHSP.

That's why I said Blue Cross is a great deal if you look at PRICE ONLY .
Some of my clients had said that blue cross' service (i have never had their heatlh plan so this is all 2nd hand info) leaves something to be desired at times, which is why they look for the same coverage from other sources.

[Northendzone]

TheHSP plan pays everything, and they charge 10% of the claims expense.....no pesky contract. You would pay a lot more in expenses if you had a small group plan with any other provider......this is not insurance at all, it is a method to side step taxes....

[CarlW]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

TheHSP plan pays everything, and they charge 10% of the claims expense.....no pesky contract. You would pay a lot more in expenses if you had a small group plan with any other provider......this is not insurance at all, it is a method to side step taxes....

It doesn't pay everything, and what people don't realize is that what a PHSP covers can be changed at the whim of the gov't. A few years ago they covered cosmetic things like laser hair removal and cosmetic surgery, but now these things aren't covered, who knows what will be removed or added in the future. And it's not side stepping taxes since it's actually regulated by the income tax act.

[Nufy]

Bump...

Looking to move away from Blue cross for a health ins provider.

I am a self employed contractor.

Any comparable alternatives ?

[fundmark19]

Slava sells insurance benefits why don't you touch base with him and he can go over some options with you