Royal Bank apologizes to outsourced workers

[MotoRacer]

http://www.thestar.com/business/2013...tsourcing.html

This is the norm lately in Calgary downtown, wondering why this has caused such a stir and not a peep about the many downtown Calgary companies?

[GoinAllTheWay]

I read about this in the paper last week. A very puzzling move for RBC as it sounds as though the people they brought in didn't have any special skills. The employees they were replacing had to train THEM how to do their job.

Bad PR to say the least. And illegal too I'm sure.

[CaramonLS]

The TFW is a very valuable and important program to Alberta - the sad truth is that some companies are completely misusing the program. I'm not even sure how these LMOs were granted to RBC if they already had people in the job.

[bluejays]

It's an embarrassment all around. Working in the banking industry, I know our bank does the same, but to my knowledge they haven't laid anyone off like RBC did. Not that it makes it any better. Banks make billions in profit and still feel the need to be extremely greedy by nickle and diming the general Canadian worker. I hope this is just the beginning of scrutiny to other practices taking place.

[Coach]

Also employed in the banking industry. I honestly don't see the big deal. As fleury says, all companies do it. And while thats not an excuse, calling for change is pretty hypocritical coming from everyone else. RBC is a top-5 employer of Canadians (~80,000), and it seems a little unfair for them to be taking the flack they are for outsourcing .05 percent of their workforce. Its not necessarily a bad thing to employ people in other, less developed nations either from a global perspective.

Also word is they were just moving people to a different department and not necessarily firing them.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

I read about this in the paper last week. A very puzzling move for RBC as it sounds as though the people they brought in didn't have any special skills. The employees they were replacing had to train THEM how to do their job.

Bad PR to say the least. And illegal too I'm sure.

It's only puzzling because the media has done a shoddy job reporting the story. The RBC jobs are being outsourced to India; the Indian workers are temporarily in Canada to learn the role so they can then go back to India and train the rest of the replacement staff.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also word is they were just moving people to a different department and not necessarily firing them.

How do IT people just move to different depts? Teller?

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Also employed in the banking industry. I honestly don't see the big deal. As fleury says, all companies do it. And while thats not an excuse, calling for change is pretty hypocritical coming from everyone else. RBC is a top-5 employer of Canadians (~80,000), and it seems a little unfair for them to be taking the flack they are for outsourcing .05 percent of their workforce. Its not necessarily a bad thing to employ people in other, less developed nations either from a global perspective.

Also word is they were just moving people to a different department and not necessarily firing them.

No, no they don't. Massive difference between outsourcing and bringing in TFWs. Massive.

The TFW program is designed to fill skill gaps, specifically when an employer proves that they have exhausted all reasonable options in order to employ Canadians for specific positions, then they are allowed to bring over TFWs.

Using it as a cost control method is completely against the intentions of the program and probably illegal.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

It's only puzzling because the media has done a shoddy job reporting the story. The RBC jobs are being outsourced to India; the Indian workers are temporarily in Canada to learn the role so they can then go back to India and train the rest of the replacement staff.

If this is truly the case you can ignore my previous posts. The article said that they were using the TFW program - only doing training is a completely different issue.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

How do IT people just move to different depts? Teller?

No idea. Likely not any sort of promotion. But my understanding is they are still employed. Or maybe thats what they mean by keeping them to train them. Just hearsay.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by MattyC

No idea. Likely not any sort of promotion. But my understanding is they are still employed. Or maybe thats what they mean by keeping them to train them. Just hearsay.

I know most banks will try to relocate you to a different department or if they can't they'll buy you out in a package (what that may be I wouldn't know). My bank will move you to a different department and will only hold your salary (if higher in the previous position) for 2 years, then you'll drop down to your new departments salary. It's not fair, but I imagine this is more or less what RBC may do. Sure RBC is being the scapegoat here, but the problem is the principle that these companies are bringing in foreign workers for a job a Canadian is willing and able to do, just to save money. While I agree to some degree with outsourcing when it comes to the difference of closing shop or continuing running, I do think there has to be reason with Canadian banks specifically, as they surely can't cry poverty given their vast profits year over year. It reeks of greed and their CEO's can't plea ignorance to not knowing about such issues when the people under them who report to them are so intricately involved in the decision making process. To my knowledge they're bringing in foreign workers to replace Canadian ones, which is just wrong when a Canadian is qualified and willing to do the job.

[wpgflamesfan]

I don't think I'd have as much of an issue with this if the Canadian banking industry weren't an oligopoly.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by fleury

I know most banks will try to relocate you to a different department or if they can't they'll buy you out in a package (what that may be I wouldn't know). My bank will move you to a different department and will only hold your salary (if higher in the previous position) for 2 years, then you'll drop down to your new departments salary. It's not fair, but I imagine this is more or less what RBC may do. Sure RBC is being the scapegoat here, but the problem is the principle that these companies are bringing in foreign workers for a job a Canadian is willing and able to do, just to save money. While I agree to some degree with outsourcing when it comes to the difference of closing shop or continuing running, I do think there has to be reason with Canadian banks specifically, as they surely can't cry poverty given their vast profits year over year. It reeks of greed and their CEO's can't plea ignorance to not knowing about such issues when the people under them who report to them are so intricately involved in the decision making process. To my knowledge they're bringing in foreign workers to replace Canadian ones, which is just wrong when a Canadian is qualified and willing to do the job.

True, not fair to the shareholders having to pay your old rate for two years while you are not doing your previous job due to being replaced by someone who provides better value for $$$.

[Zarley]

The temporary foreign workers are only here on a short term basis to prepare for the transition of IT operations from Canada to India. In fact, only one of the iGate workers is here on a temporary foreign worker visa. I find the outrage over this whole thing to be ridiculous - moves like this are good for both the Indian economy and the Canadian economy in the long run.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze

This might be enough to move my accounts from the total dogs chit RBC direct investing outsourced customer service. It's funny, every thing I ask, they can do even if they can't and then don't.

Anyone recommend a good competitor?

The inside of my mattress

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Zarley

The temporary foreign workers are only here on a short term basis to prepare for the transition of IT operations from Canada to India. In fact, only one of the iGate workers is here on a temporary foreign worker visa. I find the outrage over this whole thing to be ridiculous - moves like this are good for both the Indian economy and the Canadian economy in the long run.

How so? I find it a slippery slope, where when you really think about it, most jobs can be outsourced. Sure the company will do well, but what about the average Canadian worker? And as previously stated, banks are making billions in profits...where do you draw the line. Certainly they can't claim this is necessary for long-term profitability.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

True, not fair to the shareholders having to pay your old rate for two years while you are not doing your previous job due to being replaced by someone who provides better value for $$$.

Costs for the company go down but costs for Customers don't. Without Customers, there is no shareholder value.

Playing to the stock market is a 0 win game

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

True, not fair to the shareholders having to pay your old rate for two years while you are not doing your previous job due to being replaced by someone who provides better value for $$$.

The shareholders should be happy that the guy who has a salary of over 11,000,000/year is making these kind of decisions to get them better value.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Costs for the company go down but costs for Customers don't. Without Customers, there is no shareholder value.

Playing to the stock market is a 0 win game

Don't really get this.... zero impact on customers, positive impact on shareholders. Its a solid move, but weak PR on RBCs part. They goofed it up and had to rehire the personnel. You shouldn't have to apologize for saving money, every large company in Canada does it. Part of business in the 21st century, its the ill-informed who think its an issue.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by fotze

I guess the IT being outsourced, may have zero impact. Where was the outrage when they outsourced the customer service/brokerage divisions. That definitely had an impact.

But its a business decision, as is anything RBC does. Its better for their shareholders to have worse customer service and save the money, than keeping CSRs all in Canada. Nothing more, nothing less. If it becomes better business to move it back to Canada, then they will. Capitalism at its finest, plus, who is going to complain about low-value call centre jobs going overseas besides the unions?