Drafting - SAIT courses

[Kswiss]

Hey All,


Just wondering if I can get some feedback as I know there are a lot people who may have some valuable input.

I am currently in the finance industry and really not feeling it anymore as my position seems to have come to a dead end (no real growth). I am at a point of going into a new career and have come across two options at SAIT. I am thinking of either the Engineering Design and Drafting Technology program or the Fast Track Process Piping Drafting course.

Any one have any experience in either two programs? Also any drafters out there? Do you enjoy drafing? How is the salary/job market?


Any input would be awesome!

[GreatWhiteEbola]

I studied ED and DT, switched to Telecom Eng Tech, that was more years ago then I care to admit, so I assume it's changed quite a bit. I too am going back to school, I was told that the best thing to do is pick something that interests you, and complete it in the shortest amount of time.

With that in mind, Process Piping is what I'd recommend. Quick year and you're done, then making money. The same friend with the advice about schooling, also owns an engineering firm, he's always looking for competent drafters which are proficient in English. (Apparently, there can be communication break-downs)

[V]

The drafters I hire peak at about 44 bucks an hour, but I'm told that it's insanely high for the industry. Get into a union shop and you might be okay.

Just don't be an electrical drafter. I have a hard time believing there's a more routine boring unchallenging jobin the industry.

I think Sylvanfan is a drafter. And I get the impression hedoesnt like it.

[Kswiss]

Thanks guys for the input, GWE, i should hit up your buddy when im done

Thanks for the heads up V...

Hey Sylvanfan, any tips on drafting

[GreatWhiteEbola]

He would be looking for electrical drafters...unfortunately

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by V

The drafters I hire peak at about 44 bucks an hour, but I'm told that it's insanely high for the industry. Get into a union shop and you might be okay.

Just don't be an electrical drafter. I have a hard time believing there's a more routine boring unchallenging jobin the industry.

I think Sylvanfan is a drafter. And I get the impression he doesnt like it.

I believe that 40+ / hour is the norm for EPC, I could be wrong. 60-80 a year seems about right.

[guzzy]

Starting out you will make around $20/ hr. lots of OT opportunities though. Senior guys and leads make anywhere from $50-$100/ hr. it's like anything....you get out what you put in. I know 12 year guys making $150k plus a year.

I was part owner of an EPC until we sold a few years ago. Still in industry but i work as a PM now. I started with an EDDT diploma twelve years ago and have no regrets.

I can also say that I would only recommend one in ten piping drafters I have worked with. Four in ten are ok and help burn hours somewhat efficiently. The other five in ten are awful.
Work hard and learn. There are many benefits but you have to stand out.

And don't work in a union shop. There are no unions for drafters. Some fab shops are good when you start out but they don't pay great. Great to learn but avoid long term.

[Kswiss]

Hey Guzzy,


Thanks for the heads up! I love how it is you get what you put in, as right now where I am at, what you put in doesnt get you anything but verbal praise and a high five. Tough to stay motivated.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by guzzy

Starting out you will make around $20/ hr. lots of OT opportunities though. Senior guys and leads make anywhere from $50-$100/ hr. it's like anything....you get out what you put in. I know 12 year guys making $150k plus a year.

I was part owner of an EPC until we sold a few years ago. Still in industry but i work as a PM now. I started with an EDDT diploma twelve years ago and have no regrets.

I can also say that I would only recommend one in ten piping drafters I have worked with. Four in ten are ok and help burn hours somewhat efficiently. The other five in ten are awful.
Work hard and learn. There are many benefits but you have to stand out.

And don't work in a union shop. There are no unions for drafters. Some fab shops are good when you start out but they don't pay great. Great to learn but avoid long term.

We may have been in the same classes, I was doing EDDT in 2001. Although I would have been 1st year then.

[V]

Originally Posted by guzzy

And don't work in a union shop. There are no unions for drafters.

Our drafters are all unionized. The last company I worked at as well.

[Sylvanfan]

In Calgary with the EPC's there are some decent oppurtunities. If you can speak English and have an outgoing personality it's a plus. Seems like in Edmonton there are a lot of ESL types and often they do lack the self confidence to get into managerial type positions. Piping is certainly a good option, from what I hear lucrative, and usually a lot of work.

Had I went to Calgary out of school it probably would have worked out far better for me. I hear stories of detailers being hired in Calgary for $60 an hour to work at structural firms to help the engineers design things better.

I mean, if it was that bad I'd get right out of it. Nationally I make a decent wage but inside Alberta it's pretty weak. At my age and life situation it's tough to drop it and change jobs. I'm actually moving into a management position here over the next while, so will see how that goes. Maybe one day I'll end up with that mythical 75 an hour job at a EPC.

I think who you work for has a big influence on things. Where I screwed up was that at 6 years into the job, I should have tried to make a move. Instead things stagnated and I wasted 5 years going nowhere with a company who screwed me over anyways years later. So make sure you always have a chance to move up, and do new things if you do get into it.

I graduated in 96, have worked as a steel detailer ever since, and I doubt I make half what a couple others in this thread speak of. With some OT, bonuses and 5% RRSP matching I come in well short of the 100k standard that most working Alberta males earn.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Piping design definitely seems to be where its at. Pipers typically own the 3d Models, make a lot of key decisions, and as such receive a bit of extra 'Glory based pay'.

From a PMs perspective......with all other groups reporting through piping (primarily for modelling purposes) they typically have a great feel for all of stress points in a design project. Couple that with technical expertise and they become insanely valuable for a glorified paperpusher such as myself. I'd trade an entire civil team for a good piping designer ten times out of ten.

My personal opinion is that pipers also have a leg up when looking for leads, PEs and PMs. They tend to have more exposure to everything than their peers, but that may just be my view.

If you want into this line of work, piping is a solid option. Another would be a career as an engineering technologist. They make damn near the same as engineers (supply and demand of labor at work, I believe) and get to do a lot of cool stuff. If/when I went back to school, this would be my choice.

Looking into the crystal ball at bit.....there are some things happening globally in our business that point towards a future focus on remote operations and major reliance on digital systems. (Read up on digital energy, intelligent energy, etc) This is going to make instrumentation a pretty interesting option as well. Even today finding a really good DCS guy can feel like like trying to find a unicorn.


EDIT - Sorry to cause any offense to the Civil team out there......your PMs love you too.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by GreatWhiteEbola

We may have been in the same classes, I was doing EDDT in 2001. Although I would have been 1st year then.

I started in January of 2001 and ran straight through for four semesters.

[guzzy]

Another thing to consider is if you want certification you will need your diploma not the piping certificate. With the diploma you can get your CET certification. With the certificate you can only become a technician instead of technologist.

[guzzy]

Originally Posted by V

Our drafters are all unionized. The last company I worked at as well.

I had no idea that some drafters were unionized. I knew in UK they were.

[northcrunk]

Any sort of project management team position pays well. Procurement, contracts, inspection, document control and project control all have the ability to make over 100k. Ive been doing document control for 2 years and in oil for 5 and im over 100k a year now. I have a drafting certificate from sait but the way drafting is going many companies are using drafting firms in hong kong.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by northcrunk

Any sort of project management team position pays well. Procurement, contracts, inspection, document control and project control all have the ability to make over 100k. Ive been doing document control for 2 years and in oil for 5 and im over 100k a year now. I have a drafting certificate from sait but the way drafting is going many companies are using drafting firms in hong kong.

That is crazy for DC.....at that rate that should be getting outsourced.

Some disciplines do look to places like India, China, or the Philipinnes for outsourcing drafting/design. I've even seen Romania and Egypt recently. But many of those projects end up costing more in the long run. Still they keep doing it thinking they can save a buck. Than again they can't outscource welders or other trades where they would really save some serious money as the unions won't stand for it.

[WilsonFourTwo]

The outsourcing of drafting is a tough situation. You can definitely get some economy through cheaper labour, but my experience (been through this three times) is that you typically get people that just "Draw pictures" without putting any actual thought into what's happening.

Realted, I think most people would agree that the biggest challenge with our multicultural teams in Calgary is communication. ESL is a fact of life and working in a team filled with different accents and linguistic capabilities can get tough. Still, its way easier when everyone is in a room together and you can use sketches (and such) to ensure alignment. Having 3 or 4 different accents on a telephone call is a brutal way to get things done, adding in ungodly hours due to time zone only compounds the problems.

In the end, based on my experience anyhow, outsourcing looks good on paper until you inevitably find yourself forced into design changes at a late stage because of it. Its a huge PITA and ends up eating all of your perceived savings.

[Kswiss]

Thanks All! This is really helping me out. I eventually want to get into PM, as I have managerial experience in banking. Cant wait to get er started!

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by WilsonFourTwo

The outsourcing of drafting is a tough situation. You can definitely get some economy through cheaper labour, but my experience (been through this three times) is that you typically get people that just "Draw pictures" without putting any actual thought into what's happening.

Realted, I think most people would agree that the biggest challenge with our multicultural teams in Calgary is communication. ESL is a fact of life and working in a team filled with different accents and linguistic capabilities can get tough. Still, its way easier when everyone is in a room together and you can use sketches (and such) to ensure alignment. Having 3 or 4 different accents on a telephone call is a brutal way to get things done, adding in ungodly hours due to time zone only compounds the problems.

In the end, based on my experience anyhow, outsourcing looks good on paper until you inevitably find yourself forced into design changes at a late stage because of it. Its a huge PITA and ends up eating all of your perceived savings.

Agreed. There are some highly capable technical people who get held back, by their lack of confidence in communicating in English. Likely the problem is that if someone tries to tell these people that improving your ability to communicate in English, will do more for you to further yourself than anything else...it's considered racist and discriminatory...yet that's exactly how it's practiced in the work environment...the best talker get's the better job, and doesn't hesitate to throw the other guys under the bus who won't defend themselves.

Also if you want to do work with low cost labor countries, you better invest in managing it and have it planned out to a tee up front. I am biased....but a few extra dollars spent up front at the drafting/design stage will minimize cost over runs and delays downstream. Just like a simple error in drafting can become a costly mistake downstream and major delay/bottleneck. Factor in the knowing how to do business in certain climates...It's very risky. Many places pulling out of India unable to deal with the climate of corruption.

Looking at the demographics I think opportunities will continue to exist. What draftsman/technologists do as their work is an ever evolving skill set and those who can best work with designers will continue to be in demand. It is at a point where knowlege has to start being passed down though.