The "Best Player Outside the NHL" Experiment

[strombad]

So, I thought I'd see what some of you thought regarding the trend lately of NHL teams acquiring what they immediately proclaim as the "Best Player Outside the NHL" (BPO for short!) and what you think it's going to take before either A). Teams stop doing it or B). Teams stop heaving lofty expectations on these players.

Obviously it's fresh in our minds because we current have two of them and just had another recently. That's not to say that Ramo and Berra have been exceptionally bad, but the expectation was that both would compete against each other for the starting role. Thing is, Ramo is barely holding the starting position together (not entirely his fault) and Berra is only above average in the AHL. I think both guys are playing just fine and I'm glad we have them, but what's the point of heaping on expectations to players who are really nothing more than your average NHL player?

If you look at a few others recently, it's kind of the same vibe. No "stars" have come out of it. Off the top of my head:
Ramo
Berra (kind of, wasn't touted THAT highly, but it was close)
Cervenka
Radulov
Brunnstrom
Schultz (only do the storm created around how 'great' he was and how the Oilers 'won' that lottery, yet now he's brutal)

Those are all guys who either weren't even good enough for the NHL, or are only good enough to stick around on bad teams.

Even if you look at some of the biggest point producers in the KHL (for example) you've got guys like Nigel Dawes, Dustin Boyd, Clay Wilson, Marcel Hossa, Brandon Bochenski, etc. All guys who couldn't even stick in the NHL and yet teams still look to see who is playing great overseas like it matters.

The NHL is the best league in the world, that's not a secret, but how long is it until we realise how FAR ahead it is? And why do General Managers continue to search the ranks overseas for players who are likely no better than the average guy over here? The gamble? Maybe hoping they strike gold?

Does anyone have any example of when this method has worked? Because I couldn't recall any recently.

Maybe I'm off my rocker on the whole thing, but I was just curious if anybody else had the same thought. To be clear, this isn't an overreaction to bad play from Ramo, but it did get me thinking of guys LIKE him.

[vilzeh]

Sure, if players would get the time to adapt to NHL I'm sure they would do fine, but seems like they have to be the best right away.

[Tyler]

Maybe Flames management should start to resign themselves to the fact that maayyybeeeee there's a reason these guys aren't in the NHL..?

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by strombad

The NHL is the best league in the world, that's not a secret, but how long is it until we realise how FAR ahead it is? And why do General Managers continue to search the ranks overseas for players who are likely no better than the average guy over here? The gamble? Maybe hoping they strike gold?

Does anyone have any example of when this method has worked? Because I couldn't recall any recently.

You kind of answered your own questions. Teams want to find the diamond in the rough. You won't know what you have until you try it out. Sometimes it works, most times not.

I think that teams really started doing this once they noticed how the Red Wings always seemed to find these hidden players overseas that no one really knew about. They didn't want to be left out, and decided to gamble on players overseas.

I can't really think of any solid examples that worked. I mean sure you get the occasional player who comes over and works out (Brunnstrom comes to mind), but most of the time it doesn't work. In this day and age of technology and video film, if you are good enough to play in the NHL, you'll be on someone's radar. There is a reason these guys are considered best outside the NHL don't make it full time. For years Alexei Morozov was considered the best player outside the league. And when he got his chance here, he faltered. Most of these players who are called BPO just can't translate their game over. And that's what seperates the good leagues, from the highest NHL level.

[Ark2]

"Best player not playing in the NHL" within the last decade (roughly) was Zetterburg. Beyond that, they have all been busts for one reason or another. I do, however, take exception to Radulov being on your list. The guy is very good, just doesn't care enough to make it work in the NHL. If he was committed to playing in North America, I would take him on the Flames in a heartbeat.

[TurdFerguson]

Risk reward. for teams with roster space and money to spend why not try - what is the downside? Most deals are very short in nature (1-2 year auditions). If it works, then you acquired an NHL asset for nothing. If not, then perhaps ownership is out a couple M - seems to happen one way or another anyway.

Perhaps its tempered expectations that are required - I don't believe teams are expecting to bring over a star, but rather an NHL regular. Again, adding without subtracting.

I also wouldn't call Schultz brutal - again, tempered expectations. He is an offensive specialist, much like an Enstrom. For the Oilers organization they were able to bring in an NHL caliber player without giving up anything. Still wish he came to Calgary.

As a franchise, if you are not exploring every avenue and maximizing all your resources in an effort to get better then you're doing it wrong.

in the case of all the Flames "failed" attempts, what damage has trying done to the organization?

[Canada 02]

you have to go after these opportunities. They don't need to be stars. They can be depth guys, or even just minor league players - most organizations run two pro teams - filling out the AHL roster and developing those diamonds in the rough has to be part of the process of building the organization.

Guys like Schultz may not work out, but Dan Dekeyser has looked pretty good so far; so has Torey Krug. Henrik Karlsson was a bust, but Viktor Faskth did a nice job last year. You have to take these shots.

The smarter thing to do would be to not over-sell these guys as "top centers' or "best players outside the NHL". Just say your 'scouts like him and you want to bring them in for a shot' or something like that to moderate expectations

[sureLoss]

Don't forget about Damien Brunner.. .6 pts/g in his NHL career thus far not bad.

[Enoch Root]

Not sure what you're looking for here.

It seems kind of obvious that if they aren't playing in the NHL, they are probably not likely to suddenly become NHL stars.

However, that doesn't mean that some of them might not become NHL players. And every player you can find is another asset.

As others have said, no downside whatsoever.

Also, way too early to write-off Ramo and/or Berra. Let's give them a chance at least.

And why did you leave Brunner off your list? He has become an NHL player.

[Buff]

I don't know about Radulov. He is good enough to be an impact player in the NHL he just felt the top spot should be his to lose, not his to earn. The others players weren't quite the same mindset, they were just expected to be these great players and it turned out they were average, at best.

[saillias]

Kovalchuk

[Miniac]

Did you expect a home run every time the Flames pick up "the best player outside the NHL"?

[CaramonLS]

Ville Leino.

Wasn't worth what the Sabres paid for him, but he had a good season / playoff with Philly - servicable player.

Also Backstrom for Minny was / is a very solid Goalie.

[Buff]

Makes me think about a similar situation from a different entertainment... Would Sting have been a star if he went to the WWE or would he have been a jobber?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

While I agree it probably isn't helpful to pump the tires on those guys too much, the fact is that NHL teams are looking for essentially longshots when picking up guys in these other leagues. Frankly, not so different from drafting junior guys. They too might be the " best not in the NHL", but that hardly guarantees success.

To answer the original question, I think Brunner is a decent example, perhaps Fasth?

[trackercowe]

At least Gustavsson and Fasth appear to be legitimate NHLers. Took a better team for Gustavsson to make it, but I think it says something when Holland and Babcock have faith in him. Fasth might be the Ducks starter next year, so he was definitely worth the attention he received.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not sure what you're looking for here.

It seems kind of obvious that if they aren't playing in the NHL, they are probably not likely to suddenly become NHL stars.

However, that doesn't mean that some of them might not become NHL players. And every player you can find is another asset.

As others have said, no downside whatsoever.

Also, way too early to write-off Ramo and/or Berra. Let's give them a chance at least.

And why did you leave Brunner off your list? He has become an NHL player.

Just looking for discussion, you know, message board and all that.

I'm definitely not writing our guys off, but it's undeniable that when you put it out there that these guys are the best outside the NHL you're trying to hype them up to what is likely a bit too high of a level. I still think there's a lot left to prove, but while Berra is kind of unknown, I haven't seen anything from Ramo so far this season that elicits a ton of confidence. He was known for weak goals in the KHL, and that's certainly been a trait thus far.

Radulov wise, the guy has talent, but he still doesn't have the stuff for the NHL. I think Cervenka was pretty talented, but he couldn't stick either.

And yeah, Brunner. As I said, the list was off the top of my head. No malice in leaving him off, that's why I explicitly asked if there was anyone could think of players that had worked. Though, to be fair, he wasn't nearly as hyped as most other guys.

[Coach]

I think Cervenka had a tough situation. Coming off a tough injury, missing training camp, and then a shortend season while adapting to different ice. The guy was certainly soft, but very skilled as well. I think in a different situation it would have been more successful.

Also, Radulov definitely is an NHL calibre player. But he's a lazy idiot so he stays home. And that's fine.

[sworkhard]

Part of the problem with many of these "Best Players outside the NHL" is that they want to get paid a reasonable fraction of what they are getting in the KHL. Due to their pay grade, they then have no choice but to perform right away.

Take Cervenka, for example. The Flames either offered him a second contract, or told him the pay range they were interested in him for. Cervenka, however, probably made the right choice by going back to the KHL for a lot more money even if he could have become a 40-50pt NHL player for a few years after adapting to the north American game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by strombad

...I'm definitely not writing our guys off, but it's undeniable that when you put it out there that these guys are the best outside the NHL you're trying to hype them up to what is likely a bit too high of a level...

I think the problem is primarily with peoples' perception of what that means. NHL executives surely know how vast the gap between the European professional leagues and the NHL is better than anyone. If players are projected as "BPO", then it is entirely on the fans for expecting this to mean more than it actually does.

I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly didn't expect much more from Ramo than what we have seen thus far, but this is also factoring into consideration that it will likely take more than five games in the course of a month for him to adjust and feel comfortable with the position. I don't believe Flames management is guilty of "overhyping"either him or Berra, and I don't believe they honestly expected much more from him than to prove that he is capable of starting games in the NHL. It's still a little to early to draw conclusions, but I can't imagine anyone with reasonable expectations is surprised.