Standings Death for Seth?

[89revival]

This team is going nowhere fast, tank for Seth I say, when's the last time we picked in the top 5? I want Seth.....Iggy and Mikkaa go at some point this year too....the inevitable rebuild must happen, stop kidding yourselves flame fans, this group isn't gonna do it.....and no this isn't just a thread in response to the slow start, this has been coming for 4-5 years now......

[Muta]

No self-respecting team should ever try to fail.

That said, we may see such results even if we try.

[Captain_Obvious]

If we were to draft first, it's Mackinnon all the way.

This franchise has been plagued by the lack of a true number one centre for over a generation.

That would be a no-brainer for management imo.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 89revival

...the inevitable rebuild must happen, stop kidding yourselves flame fans, this group isn't gonna do it...

Why must it either be one or the other?

The thing I don't get in this constant argument is the notion that the Flames only have two choices: either to embark on a scorched earth rebuild, or to continue to attempt to ice competitive teams via free agency and trades each year in hopes of making the playoffs at the expense of the longer term future. I just don't see either currently at work in the Flames organisation. Rather, it seems to me that management is taking a more patient approach: gradual turnover in the roster and restocking through the draft, supplemented by the free agent market. This is my interpretation of the last couple of drafts and also the way in which Feaster has constructed the current roster.

I don't think there are many serious Flames fans who actually believe that the current group is now or at any point in the next couple of seasons a legitimate contender in the League. However, I also think that this is not otherwise some egregious oversight on the part of management that urgently must be corrected. Could another alternative simply be that the next couple of seasons are transition periods through which the team is rebuilt more gradually?

[devo22]

Losing on purpose is never acceptable. We're not Edmonton.

I know the Flames well enough to predict what is going to happen. This team will dwell in the bottom of the standings in the first couple weeks, then go on a hot streak right in time for the trade deadline, so Feaster won't dismantle the team in hope for a playoff berth, yet they'll fall short and finish 9th or 10th in the West. Fool me thrice? ...

[Muta]

If we had a top three pick, we shouldnt be surprised if we end up trading that down to a 7th or 8th and then getting a 2nd rounder out of the deal. Only three times in the last decade have we picked the BPA.... Phaneuf, Backlund and Baertschi. Go figure, they're all playing in the NHL now.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Muta

No self-respecting team should ever try to fail.

The Penguins tanked in 1983-84, in order to draft Mario Lemieux. It apparently worked out pretty well for them...

[bubbsy]

with the promising young players the franchise has been scooping up the last 2 drafts, i would love to see what they could do if they were to have multiple first/second rounders. Last year the lightening had 3 first rounders, this year columbus does i think, even the contending pens had 2 first rounds last year.

I am really really hoping the flames management team have a strategy in their back pockets titled "What we'll do if the team is in 10th or worse by Apr 1st" and it involves getting multiple first rounders in the upcoming draft.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The Penguins tanked in 1983-84, in order to draft Mario Lemieux. It apparently worked out pretty well for them...

Good thing there's been so many Lemieux-calibre #1 draft picks since then hey. Even though scouting is so much better these days and there's not so many Daigles, you'll be waiting an awful long time if you intend to tank for a generation-defining legend to turn your franchise around.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The Penguins tanked in 1983-84, in order to draft Mario Lemieux. It apparently worked out pretty well for them...

What does it working out well have to do with self respect?

[gargamel]

No to the idea and no to the rhyme.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Muta

No self-respecting team should ever try to fail.

That said, we may see such results even if we try.

No coaches or players ever go out on the ice and try to fail, but the GMs of many self-respecting teams have abandoned short term success for long term success by trading away talent for future assets. They know full well the short term results are going to be bad on the ice.

A lot of teams "audition" their youth after it looks like they are out of it, and again, they know it means they are going to lose more games. The idea is that it will help in the long run.

Having said that, people are way overreacting to the first 5 games. I think this team is better than the results are showing. It is not time to throw in the towel yet. The new coach has only had 5 games to undo previous mistakes and it is only the 2nd game back for 2 of our top 6 players. I'm not sure they will be successful this season, but have a little patience.

[Poe969]

The way this team has been mismanaged in the past, I think if we got the #1 overall pick, we'd trade it for a late first, a second and an older vet that might push us into that ever so comfortable 9th spot.

I think I'd pick McKinnon first overall but I wouldn't be sad with Seth. I would just hope that we get rid of some of the older players we have and go in a new direction.

[Resolute 14]

Any fan who wants to lose is no fan at all.

[Roof-Daddy]

I can't bring myself to cheer for Flames losses. Cannot do it.

However, every time they do lose I'll take solace in the fact that it a talent rich draft, and a short season.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why must it either be one or the other?

The thing I don't get in this constant argument is the notion that the Flames only have two choices: either to embark on a scorched earth rebuild, or to continue to attempt to ice competitive teams via free agency and trades each year in hopes of making the playoffs at the expense of the longer term future. I just don't see either currently at work in the Flames organisation. Rather, it seems to me that management is taking a more patient approach: gradual turnover in the roster and restocking through the draft, supplemented by the free agent market. This is my interpretation of the last couple of drafts and also the way in which Feaster has constructed the current roster.

I don't think there are many serious Flames fans who actually believe that the current group is now or at any point in the next couple of seasons a legitimate contender in the League. However, I also think that this is not otherwise some egregious oversight on the part of management that urgently must be corrected. Could another alternative simply be that the next couple of seasons are transition periods through which the team is rebuilt more gradually?

Restocking the team gradually through the normal allotment of draft picks and access to free agents isn't a strategy - it's what most teams in the NHL to every season. At best, it's an approach that will return the Flames to mediocrity in a few season. It's not an approach that gives us a high likelihood of developing an elite core and contesting the top of the conference for several season.

Le'ts compare two teams: the Stars and the Blues.

The Stars hung onto their aging core of Modano, Turco, Lehtinen, and Zubov until they had pretty much no value. Then they had declined into being a bad team, drafted and developed some pretty good players, and now they look they'll be... mediocre.

When the Blues saw thing weren't working out, they moved Guerin, Weight, Tkachuk out for young players and picks. Yes, they drafted very well to get themselves much of their core, but they parlayed those vets into McDonald, Perron, Cole, and Halak (via Eller). They supercharged their acquisition of young talent.

The Flame need to do that. They have, at best, an average prospect base. More importantly, they have maybe the worst collection of 21-27-year-old talent in the NHL. Even if our prospects turn out as well as we hope, and management continue to draft well, the top of the cycle still looks like mediocrity. And free agency is a way to supplement a good team (or patch a bad one), not build a champion. We need more prospects, and more and higher picks.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Any fan who wants to lose is no fan at all.

Any fan who can't see past the current season and hope for what's best for the team in the long-term of 3-7 seasons is short-sighted and delusional.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Any fan who wants to lose is no fan at all.

When I'm watching the games I'm hoping for them to win, but there is a silver lining to a bad season. This team needs a succession plan - a new wave of core players to build around. Sven is one. They need more. I think there are 3 guys at the top of the draft that are franchise changers, and then 3 or 4 more that would be guys that are just a step below.

Grabbing one of those could potentially accelerate a turnaround.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

Good thing there's been so many Lemieux-calibre #1 draft picks since then hey. Even though scouting is so much better these days and there's not so many Daigles, you'll be waiting an awful long time if you intend to tank for a generation-defining legend to turn your franchise around.

You can say that again. I recall there were many rumors Ottawa deliberately tanked the last few games of the season, in order to draft Daigue. The funny thing is, once Daigle was drafted for Ottawa, some reporters asked for his thoughts.

Daigle replied: "I'm glad I got drafted first, because no one remembers number two."

The #2 pick? Chris Pronger.

[DuffMan]

Speaking of the standings, I got a good laugh this morning when I saw our next opponent has 10 more points than us, 5 games into the season, ha ha.