Defence by Country - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Da_Chief · 02-26-2013, 10:42 AM

Was just looking over Sweden's up and coming dmen and there is some huge potential there. I wanted to see how they compare to Canada and USA.

Heres the top 10 imo for each country playing in the NHL. Not in order

Canada:
Shea Weber
Drew Doughty
Alex Pietrangelo
Kris Letang
Duncan Keith
Marc Staal
Brent Seabrook
Dan Girardi
P.K. Subban
Micheal Del Zotto

Sweden:
Erik Karlsson
Oliver Ekman-Larsson
Tobias Enstrom
Alex Edler
Victor Hedman
Niklas Kronwall
Jonas Brodin
Adam Larsson
Johny Oduya
Niklas Hjalmarsson

USA:
Dustin Byfuglien
Ryan Suter
Keith Yandle
Kevin Shattenkirk
Jack Johnson
Erik Johnson
Ryan McDonagh
John Carlson
Zach Bogosian
Mathieu Carle

They all look good to me. By far the best defence will be from these 3 teams in Sochi.

For me its hard to even rank these groups from 1-3. The top 7 talent of all is equal.

Canada
Weber-Doughty
Pietrangelo-Staal
Seabrook-Keith
Letang

Sweden
Karlsson-Kronwall
Enstrom-Ekman-Larsson
Edler-Hedman
Larsson

USA
Byfuglien-Suter
Yandle-Mcdonagh
Shattenkirk-E.Johnson
Bogosian

Sweden is pumping out some real good dmen, idolizing Lidstrom.

How would you rank the three? or Am I missing some obvious ones from any of the three teams?

moon · 02-26-2013, 10:48 AM

Canada looks much better than the other 2 in my view.

They seem to have the best mix of guys who are currently good while still have a ton of young guys.

Sweden might be good in a few years but having guys like Enstrom, OEL and even Kronwall in their top 4 is pretty far behind the Canadian guys.

I would say Canada is clearly number 1, Sweden a slight 2 over the US.

MrMastodonFarm · 02-26-2013, 10:52 AM

I must be getting old as none of those look good to me. Where's Pronger, MacInnis, Niedermayer, Rob Blake and Scott Stevens!

Roof-Daddy · 02-26-2013, 10:58 AM

The quality of Russian NHL D men sure has gone in the crapper hasn't it?

Is there even ten of them in the NHL anymore?

AR_Six · 02-26-2013, 11:11 AM

Letang has to be a front-runner for the norris right now, he's not the 7th guy, he's on the top pairing.

Da_Chief · 02-26-2013, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR_Six

Letang has to be a front-runner for the norris right now, he's not the 7th guy, he's on the top pairing.

Love Letang's game but there's no way he's playing ahead of Doughty, Weber, Pie, Keith. At best he's on the 3rd pair.

cannon7 · 02-26-2013, 11:38 AM

Shea Weber - Yes
Drew Doughty - Having a tough year, probably
Alex Pietrangelo - Yes
Kris Letang - Yes
Duncan Keith - Yes
Marc Staal - Probably, meh
Brent Seabrook - Unlikely, would play Bouwmeester over him
Dan Girardi - Like him more than Staal
P.K. Subban - Maybe, inconsistent
Micheal Del Zotto - Too one-dimensional

Not a fan of the Canucks, but Dan Hamhuis belongs on this team.

GreenLantern · 02-26-2013, 11:49 AM

I think the Russian D will be made up of a lot of KHLers..

I am under the impression they have a fair amount of talent on the back end, just not in the NHL.

blankall · 02-26-2013, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I think the Russian D will be made up of a lot of KHLers..

I am under the impression they have a fair amount of talent on the back end, just not in the NHL.

This.

KHL salaries have become more competitive lately. It's not just d-men who are staying in Russia, but players in general. There are currently only 21 Russian players in the entire NHL, versus around 50 in the mid 90s to mid 2000s.

Eric Vail · 02-26-2013, 01:17 PM

Where is Schultz? He certainly is in the top seven defensemen for Canada.

Sakari · 02-26-2013, 03:00 PM

No country can compete with Canada in any category. Nobody. You might make the argument, hah! Quick and Miller are awesome! Well, so are Smith, Brodeur, Luongo (dont even argue it), etc. Not to mention on the all-time list, you can't even compare remotely there. When it comes to offense, Stamkos and Crosby are the leagues MVPs, not to mention all the other players i could waste time naming. Defense.. same goes. Sweden is the only country that comes close, but still, no. Yet somehow, we manage to get our asses kicked in many world championships.

blankall · 02-26-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakari

No country can compete with Canada in any category. Nobody. You might make the argument, hah! Quick and Miller are awesome! Well, so are Smith, Brodeur, Luongo (dont even argue it), etc. Not to mention on the all-time list, you can't even compare remotely there. When it comes to offense, Stamkos and Crosby are the leagues MVPs, not to mention all the other players i could waste time naming. Defense.. same goes. Sweden is the only country that comes close, but still, no. Yet somehow, we manage to get our asses kicked in many world championships.

Hockey is a team game. The Canadian players play with eachother and in international tournaments rarely. Crosby, for instance, has only played in one internaitonal tournament since the 2006 WC.

The increased international rink size also makes a huge difference.

I also think you're exaggerating the dominance of Canada. Canada has by far the most depth in each category. However, there are countries that rival and exceed our top end talent in many categories.

For instance, in the 2010 olympics, Sweden and Russia had the following included in their forwards:

Sweden: Zetterberg, Sedin, Sedin, Backstrom, Forsberg, Alfredsson

Russia: Datsyuk, Kovalchuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, Semin

All of the above in 2010 were potential Art Ross/Hart trophy winners.

SuperMatt18 · 02-26-2013, 03:26 PM

That U.S. defense is really good and is really young. Not as good as Canada's but an underrated group overall.

Yandle, Suter, Shattenkirk, E.Johnson, J.Johnson, McDonaugh, Carlson, Bogosian,

Byfuglien shouldn't be near that team as a d-man, especially on international ice. Dress him as your 13th forward for the PP maybe.

Trojan97 · 02-26-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakari

No country can compete with Canada in any category. Nobody. You might make the argument, hah! Quick and Miller are awesome! Well, so are Smith, Brodeur, Luongo (dont even argue it), etc. Not to mention on the all-time list, you can't even compare remotely there. When it comes to offense, Stamkos and Crosby are the leagues MVPs, not to mention all the other players i could waste time naming. Defense.. same goes. Sweden is the only country that comes close, but still, no. Yet somehow, we manage to get our asses kicked in many world championships.

Finnish goalies: Rinne, Rask, Niemi, Kipper, Lehtonen, Backstrom

Chris Biotti · 02-26-2013, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The quality of Russian NHL D men sure has gone in the crapper hasn't it?

Is there even ten of them in the NHL anymore?

According to NHL.com there are 8 of them:

A. Markov, MTL
F. Tyutin, CBJ
S. Voynov LAK
S. Gonchar OTT
D. Kulikov FLA
N. Nikitin CBJ
A. Emelin, MTL
A. Volchenkov, NJD

Da_Chief · 02-26-2013, 03:46 PM

There's no way our goaltending depth is amazing right now.

The top end talent is only few goalies (Price, Luongo, Fleury, Ward) rest are not good or on their last legs.

Joker · 02-26-2013, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakari

No country can compete with Canada in any category. Nobody. You might make the argument, hah! Quick and Miller are awesome! Well, so are Smith, Brodeur, Luongo (dont even argue it), etc. Not to mention on the all-time list, you can't even compare remotely there. When it comes to offense, Stamkos and Crosby are the leagues MVPs, not to mention all the other players i could waste time naming. Defense.. same goes. Sweden is the only country that comes close, but still, no. Yet somehow, we manage to get our asses kicked in many world championships.

Meh. The worlds are always during playoffs where NHL teams stocked with Canadians are still in the hunt. World Juniors though....

moon · 02-26-2013, 03:49 PM

Goaltending is certainly not an area that Canada wins let alone is untouched. Depending on how you look at it we are 3rd or 4th behind Finland, US and maybe Sweden.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

Meh. The worlds are always during playoffs where NHL teams stocked with Canadians are still in the hunt. World Juniors though....

Canada does great at World Juniors no need for a bag over the head.

Joker · 02-26-2013, 03:56 PM

Guess Im just concerned over the downward trend in the last few years. Gold in 09 then 2 silver then bronze then no medal..............

Geuss im being an alarmist

$ven27 · 02-26-2013, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakari

No country can compete with Canada in any category. Nobody. You might make the argument, hah! Quick and Miller are awesome! Well, so are Smith, Brodeur, Luongo (dont even argue it), etc. Not to mention on the all-time list, you can't even compare remotely there. When it comes to offense, Stamkos and Crosby are the leagues MVPs, not to mention all the other players i could waste time naming. Defense.. same goes. Sweden is the only country that comes close, but still, no. Yet somehow, we manage to get our asses kicked in many world championships.

The fact that you mention Smith shows how weak our goaltending is now. He's a product of the Phoenix system, just like Bryzgalov was (Bryz is a good goalie, just not as good when he was in Phoenix). For me it's Price, Luongo, and Marty I guess.
Finland has by far the best goaltending currently.