Africa's real problem

[ah123]

In wake of the Live-8 concert and coverage in the media, an interesting article of what really ails Africa...

By the African Union's own estimate, Africa loses as much as US$148-billion a year to corruption.

Talk to anyone who has lived in Africa and they will tell you how true this is...You get a speeding ticket in Tanzania, just pay off the police officer. Tax inspector coming for a visit, just have some money handy...Too many blackouts (power shortage) in your area, go donate some money to the people in charge of handling the blackouts...

Africa's tragedy is not that its nations are poor. That is a condition that is a product of history. The tragedy is that it lacks ruling classes that are committed to overcoming the state of poverty

Link

[Hakan]

When did Africa become a single political unit?

This is the stuff that infuriates me when we have these arm chair pundits saying what is "really' wrong with Africa as if its some single homogenous problem.

Corruption goes hand in hand with poverty. End the poverty, end the corruption, it's not just Africa that's corrupt and that's no reason to not step up our aid.

[Agamemnon]

Seems like a pretty biased, 'they're inherently corrupt' type of article until you get to the end, when it gets the nail right on the head.

Sir Edward Clay, Britain's High Commissioner in Nairobi, attacked Kenya's leaders and their tolerance for theft, saying officials were "behaving like gluttons" and "vomiting on the shoes of donors" who provide foreign aid.

Publicly humiliated, Kenya's politicians didn't refute the charges. Instead, they complained about foreigners interfering in Kenya's internal affairs and said the diplomat's remarks smacked of paternalistic colonialism.

"The failure of democracy and economic development in Africa are due to a large part to the scramble for wealth by predator elites who have dominated African politics since independence," says Tunde Obadina, economics editor of Africa Today magazine.

"They see the state as a source of personal wealth accumulation. Africa's tragedy is not that its nations are poor. That is a condition that is a product of history. The tragedy is that it lacks ruling classes that are committed to overcoming the state of poverty."

While Western governments increasingly link foreign aid to good governance and efforts to tackle corruption, they've also recognize that banks, businessmen and bribe-paying multinational corporations share some of the blame.

"When one focuses on corruption in Africa, the tendency is to think only in terms of Africa," says Jeremy Pope, a founding director of Transparency International.

"But the international banks, the Western businessmen who bribe to get the contract, those who are in cahoots with all the millionaires, they are all up to their eyeballs in what is taking place. When it comes to moral standing, everybody belongs in the gutter together."

At least the article seems to come around near the end, but the conclusion does not seem intimately tied to the rest of the article, but rather, is inserted as an 'aside', or, 'by the way, here's why corruption is so rampant in these places'.

[Abstract]

Not by any means a dig at you for posting the article but i find it hard to believe Africans would see corruption as their real problem. Undoubtedly its one of them but im pretty sure they would include AIDS, poverty, famine, drought, civil war etc too.

[ah123]

Corruption goes hand in hand with poverty. End the poverty, end the corruption, it's not just Africa that's corrupt and that's no reason to not step up our aid.

When the aid doesn't get to the people who need it, the aid becomes a handout for those who don't need it...Get the aid to the people and force the leaders to be accountable for their action...

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Hakan@Jul 4 2005, 06:48 PM
Corruption goes hand in hand with poverty. End the poverty, end the corruption, it's not just Africa that's corrupt and that's no reason to not step up our aid.

This might work for 'under the table speeding ticket fines', but not when it comes to macro-corruption. The poverty exists (verrrry simply put) because the raw resources that hold the value of the continent are exploited, with two beneficiaries. The immediate exploiter of the resource (govt., army) and the 'buyer' of the good, who gets quality resources at bottom dollar (because they are no pesky official taxes, very cheap labour, etc.)

To me it's a chicken/egg problem. Corruption will stop when massive corrupt funding sources are eliminated. These sources will be eliminated when the avenues for their success are removed (corrupt government associates).

I have no idea how to solve this problem. Make TNC's totally transparent in all their dealings, everywhere?

[Hakan]

I think it's a much more salient point to understand that crippling trade agreements have far more negative impacts on 'Africa' (I hate reducing 50 countries down to one continent but for the sake of brevity I will) then corruption does. Africans unable to sell their goods at a wealth generating rate is far bigger a problem then government corruption.

[calculoso]

Originally posted by Hakan@Jul 4 2005, 12:48 PM
Corruption goes hand in hand with poverty. End the poverty, end the corruption, it's not just Africa that's corrupt and that's no reason to not step up our aid.

Nice to make it so simple.

As we're seeing in Canada, corruption will exist in climates that tollerate it. End tollerance for corruption and it will cease to exist. Easier said than done.

[calculoso]

Originally posted by Hakan@Jul 4 2005, 01:11 PM
I think it's a much more salient point to understand that crippling trade agreements have far more negative impacts on 'Africa' (I hate reducing 50 countries down to one continent but for the sake of brevity I will) then corruption does. Africans unable to sell their goods at a wealth generating rate is far bigger a problem then government corruption.

Who makes those trade agreements? It's the governments of the countries. They're the ones who most would say are most corrupt (granted, not in all cases, but many).

Where is the motivation for them to prevent the poverty? They have all the power they want and need, and have money (through corruption) to cater to their whims. They control how things are sold.

Corruption is a huge issue!

[Looger]

there are cultural factors, for sure.

i remember an interview with a british foreign aid worker, describing a corrupt plant that was closed (cannot recall where, i think central africa) and the day after, the manager of said corrupt plant was in the unemploymen line and on the bus with the workers he had screwed over for years.

they didn't harass him at all.

the aid worker said this simple situation told him more than centuries of european colonialism had figured out aboot the dark continent.

i draw the conclusion that in many cases, in many countries in africa, the attitude towards corruption is not what it is here.

i know a kenyan guy that comes from a rich family that was on the government take, he is proud of the situation they were in. no shame, etc. like many might expect.

africa has a lot of problems, and every country is different, but the people in many countries there seem to tolerate corruption more, the old 'pitchfork and torch' mentality maybe is not as strong there, or the sense of responsibility.

perhaps centuries of imperial rule have slowly ebbed out, generation by generation, the feeling people have to become involved in government, i don't know.

i'm not here to say 'white people bad', 'indigenous people good' but there are factors behind behaviours and attitudes, that must be acknowledged when thinking of africa.

foreign aid going to the wrong places does not help, nor do weapons sales, multinational energy companies and their shenanigans, debts that are unreturnable, market domination due to isolation, farmers being conscripted / crops burned, and the lack of a serious african peacekeeping force that doesn't pick sides in conflicts.

troubled place, i kind of want to check it out, i'd imagine there are some bright glimmers of hope.

[Hakan]

Originally posted by calculoso+Jul 4 2005, 12:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (calculoso @ Jul 4 2005, 12:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Hakan@Jul 4 2005, 01:11 PM
I think it's a much more salient point to understand that crippling trade agreements have far more negative impacts on 'Africa' (I hate reducing 50 countries down to one continent but for the sake of brevity I will) then corruption does. Africans unable to sell their goods at a wealth generating rate is far bigger a problem then government corruption.

Who makes those trade agreements? It's the governments of the countries. They're the ones who most would say are most corrupt (granted, not in all cases, but many).

Where is the motivation for them to prevent the poverty? They have all the power they want and need, and have money (through corruption) to cater to their whims. They control how things are sold.

Corruption is a huge issue! [/b][/quote]
The problem with these kind of arguments is that you can spout whatever mindless and uninformed opinion you want and make it a nice sounding neatly wrapped package while to prove my point I would have to write an essay with data and many references.

I suggest you read a book on the topic. Globalization and its Discontents by Joseph Stiglitz is a good place to start but there are many many books which analyze why the African plight is so pronounced beyond sophmoric assertions that corruption is the problem.

That said, corruption is a big problem. I published a paper about the rampant corruption in Zimbabwe which has decimated their GDP to 1/2 of their 1999 levels. But to say that corruption is the problem with ALL of Africa is assinine and ignorant. The problem is global commodity cartels being price makers not price takers and the support of these cartels by unsympathetic western governments and international institutions such as the IMF and WTO.

Nice try though.

[CaptainCrunch]

I see it as two major issues when it comes to aid.

1) Is the corruption of the various countries in Africa, when Aid is given in cash form or loans are forgiven, the governments fund the cash into thier own personal accounts, or into military spending. They keep power through strength more then any kind of democratic process. I'm all for the process of aid via credit for food, medicine, educational spending, etc as oppossed to writing blank checks.

2) The distribution process for emergency food and medical aid, I remember after Live Aid there were stories of bags of food rotting on the docks because there was no distribution to the people that needed it. A big part of the aid packages should go towards truck purchases and infrastructure upgrading.

In my mind there's no point in just continually throwing money into a sink hole if the governments aren't onside with fixing the problems, there's also no point in forgiving loans if they're just going to need to borrow more money in the future.

People like Mugabe (sp?) and some of the other leaders shouldn't be in a position to administer aid to thier own population since we know it never gets to them, but goes directly to his army.

Its just like I have trouble with increasing our aid to other nations by 28 billion dollars over 10 years if we still have problems with crumbling infrastructure, homeless issues, and a crumbling military that is being used to provide peace keeping in these impoverish nations. Fix our problems first, and then look at fixing the gobal situation in a real and meaningful way.

I know this opinion is going to make me unpopular, but you know, I was never popular here in the first place.


Just my 2 cents

[Frank the Tank]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Jul 4 2005, 03:19 PM
I see it as two major issues when it comes to aid.

1) Is the corruption of the various countries in Africa, when Aid is given in cash form or loans are forgiven, the governments fund the cash into thier own personal accounts, or into military spending. They keep power through strength more then any kind of democratic process. I'm all for the process of aid via credit for food, medicine, educational spending, etc as oppossed to writing blank checks.

2) The distribution process for emergency food and medical aid, I remember after Live Aid there were stories of bags of food rotting on the docks because there was no distribution to the people that needed it. A big part of the aid packages should go towards truck purchases and infrastructure upgrading.

In my mind there's no point in just continually throwing money into a sink hole if the governments aren't onside with fixing the problems, there's also no point in forgiving loans if they're just going to need to borrow more money in the future.

People like Mugabe (sp?) and some of the other leaders shouldn't be in a position to administer aid to thier own population since we know it never gets to them, but goes directly to his army.

Its just like I have trouble with increasing our aid to other nations by 28 billion dollars over 10 years if we still have problems with crumbling infrastructure, homeless issues, and a crumbling military that is being used to provide peace keeping in these impoverish nations. Fix our problems first, and then look at fixing the gobal situation in a real and meaningful way.

I know this opinion is going to make me unpopular, but you know, I was never popular here in the first place.


Just my 2 cents

Well I'll be right beside you on the unnpopular bandwagon........

[ah123]

Originally posted by Looger@Jul 4 2005, 01:54 PM

troubled place, i kind of want to check it out, i'd imagine there are some bright glimmers of hope.

Definitely a worth while place to check out...and definitely glimmers of hope...There are some NGOs which are working with the people to improve their situation (e.g. AKDN - www.akdn.org -- organizers of the Partnership walk)

I was in Rwanda last year and I was amazed at how people take the smallest opportunity to make a living - I met people who walk 1.5 hours each way to get to work; in Kigali there were dozens of "long-distance phone call" stores, i.e. a place where you can go and make long distance phone calls (think of it as a manned phonebooth)...

If you ever get the chance to check it out -- go for it...

[Shawnski]

I find it interesting that some seem to be skipping over the points that even an African economic professor are claiming.

I watched CTV's Question Period on this yesterday.

Here is the link. (for whateve reason, the program takes a minute to start.

At the 12:19 mark, Dr George Ayittey, a Ghana born economic professor now working at the American University in Washington, gives his take (supporting the corruption problems).

Is EVERY nation in Africa siphoning off Aid money for personal benefits? Perhaps not, but it does seem that the problem is rampant, and when it is the African Union's OWN estimate that last year the problem was $148 billion, people should stand up and take notice.

Come on folks, I don't think even one of you would say that "throwing money" at a problem is likely to resolve it, regardless of the situation, be it the African poverty situation, our own Health Care problems, homelessness, whatever.... it doesn't work.

The nations of Africa have corruption problems no doubt.

Personally, when I hear "we are going to send $500 million to Africa" this year or something similar from our Fiberal government, I just squirm. I would much rather hear something like "this year, we are going to build a water de-salinization plant that will be used for irrigation of 'X' many square miles to build up farming capability in the area." .... or something to that effect. Specific. Otherwise, it is like spitting into the wind. Pick a project, define a timeline, measure the results. React accordingly. Good companies do this... they HAVE to in order to survive. But governments? God forbid they have to account to you, the taxpayer, for their spending habits.

Me 1/4 cent... after taxes.

[HumanTorch]

Their real problem is sex. They have too much of it without thinking.

[calculoso]

Originally posted by Hakan+Jul 4 2005, 02:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Hakan @ Jul 4 2005, 02:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-calculoso@Jul 4 2005, 12:43 PM

Corruption is a huge issue!

(snip)

but there are many many books which analyze why the African plight is so pronounced beyond sophmoric assertions that corruption is the problem.

That said, corruption is a big problem. I published a paper about the rampant corruption in Zimbabwe which has decimated their GDP to 1/2 of their 1999 levels. But to say that corruption is the problem with ALL of Africa is assinine and ignorant. [/b][/quote]
Hmm.. let's see.

Cutting through all the condecending crap from the post...

Summary:
Me: Corruption is a huge issue.
You: Corruption is a big problem

Sounds like we agree.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by Regehr Fan@Jul 4 2005, 03:38 PM
Their real problem is sex. They have too much of it without thinking.

Actually, the problem there is education. They don't understand the hazards of unprotected sex and don't realize that there is (of have access to) protection.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Winsor_Pilates+Jul 4 2005, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Winsor_Pilates @ Jul 4 2005, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Regehr Fan@Jul 4 2005, 03:38 PM
Their real problem is sex. They have too much of it without thinking.

Actually, the problem there is education. They don't understand the hazards of unprotected sex and don't realize that there is (of have access to) protection. [/b][/quote]
ding ding ding ding ding

We have a winner. Nice pickup

[Thunderball]

I agree that money will solve nothing there... and unfortunately, these dictators, despots and corrupt politicians in Africa (with a few exceptions I'm sure) like the current arrangement just fine. Just like with the odd lazy welfare recipient... why would they object to more money for nothing?

Can you imagine the uproar if the US, UK, France or even Canada (somehow) sent troops and engineers to an African nation to build bridges, water treatment facilities, aid in farming, etc??? They yell Imperialism, and suddenly the people trying to help would look evil, with allegations of hidden agendas, especially if countries are trying to help resource rich nations. (especially if its the US, probably one of the only nations capable of such tasks on a large scale)

The problem is absolutely enormous, and I roll my eyes in disgust when I hear someone like Bono selling people on the idea that more aid will solve everything, it will do nothing. Especially when Canada and the US have massively increasing problems with homelessness and gang violence to tackle within their own borders. More aid will only waste money that would be better used for our own social problems, since African aid is like filling a bucket with a hole in the bottom.

I have no idea what the solution is... something tells me we are several decades away from one that people will accept, unless these nations can mature on their own.