How important is centre depth?

[Street Pharmacist]

A fair amount has been made on here about the Flames lack of center depth. I always felt the center was the engine that powered the offense, but after looking around a bit, it might be even more important. In fact, I would even say it's the most important position on the ice.

If you look at the past 6 cup winning teams it becomes strikingly apparent:


Anaheim: Getzlaf, McDonald, Pahlson

Detroit: Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Draper

Pittsburgh: Crosby, Malkin, Staal

Chicago: Toews, Kane, Bolland

Boston: Krejci, Bergeron, Kelly, Peverley

LA: Kopitar, Richards, Stoll



Every team had a Center that scored at around 1.00 PPG or higher in the playoffs, and a great second line center. The top line centre led each one of those teams in scoring in the playoffs and the second line centre was close behind. Clearly the centre drove the offense for each of these teams.


The next thing that became apparent was the third line centers. What do Sammy Pahlson, Kris Draper, Jordan Staal, Dave Bolland, Patrice Bergeron and now Jarrett Stoll have in common? They are all renown shut down centers. The center seems to be heavily involved in providing defense.


We often hear how goaltending is key, but not all of those teams had top notch goaltending. Not all of those teams had fantastic D. The commonality among them is center depth.

Centers do not grow on trees, but I'm nervous as I don't see any help down the middle in the near future

[stacey]

Reading that list of players at center on some of the other NHL teams is sobering...

[Barnission]

As I've mentioned in a previous thread, Calgary is not a contender for the Stanley Cup heading in to 2012-2013, and won't be no matter what realistically happens, so I don't find the need to stack the centre a concern. I'd be more concerned with building the wings and then centre: six positions compared to three (not including the fourth line). Cammalleri is reliable and Cervenka will hopefully be at the very least decent.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Barnission

As I've mentioned in a previous thread, Calgary is not a contender for the Stanley Cup heading in to 2012-2013, and won't be no matter what realistically happens, so I don't find the need to stack the centre a concern. I'd be more concerned with building the wings and then centre: six positions compared to three (not including the fourth line). Cammalleri is reliable and Cervenka will hopefully be at the very least decent.

But why build the wings and ignore the middle? What good will just building the wings do?

(not suggesting Feaster is)

[Bonded]

The real question is how do we get a number one centre, hell even a number two centre. Unless we trade Bart and Iggy I do not see us getting a young up and coming centre.

[Barnission]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

But why build the wings and ignore the middle? What good will just building the wings do?

(not suggesting Feaster is)

I'm not suggesting to ignore the middle forever, actually I'm not saying ignore it now, but unless Feaster can pull off a great trade it is, in my view, better to focus on the wings. Of course, the wings are already kind of built, eh. Iginla, Tanguay, Stempniak, Cammalleri*, Glencross.

I'm just in the mindset that I don't think we'll be acquiring a good centre through free agency this year, and I doubt Feaster can pull off a trade that won't hurt us more than it improves us. I find it much more likely a trade for a centreman will come during trade deadline or the next off-season.

Also, I'm under the impression Feaster expects Stajan to up his game this season, along with Comeau and a few others. So there's that.

[Alberta_Beef]

I think center depth is very important, and I don't necessarily mean in terms of having a "true #1 center".

I think the Coyotes are an example of a different kind of center depth. Their center group was very good defensively and with the exception of Langkow excellent in the faceoff circle.

edit - to add this this, I think your center group has to be excellent in a couple areas, right now the only area our centers have excelled in is disappointment and inexperience.

[Jacks]

Seems the only way to get a legit #1 centre is either to pay huge money to a UFA or to draft them. Even offering huge money doesn't always work as we saw with Richards. Besides the last 2 years it seems that we always took the defenseman or the 'character guy' rather than going for a centre. Hopefully that will change in the next few years but it's going to take a long time to unring that bell. It would be interesting to see an analysis of each teams #1 centre, I would guess that most were either drafted by that team or were a big money UFA.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Seems the only way to get a legit #1 centre is either to pay huge money to a UFA or to draft them. Even offering huge money doesn't always work as we saw with Richards. Besides the last 2 years it seems that we always took the defenseman or the 'character guy' rather than going for a centre. Hopefully that will change in the next few years but it's going to take a long time to unring that bell. It would be interesting to see an analysis of each teams #1 centre, I would guess that most were either drafted by that team or were a big money UFA.

The last six Stanley Cup winners were drafted. Without checking it, I would even say that even the runner up teams number one centers were...(NJ - Henrique?, Van - Sedin, Philly - Richards, Detroit - Zetterberg, Pittsburgh - Crosby, Ottawa - Spezza)

[Caged Great]

The main thing is opportunity cost.

While it's not great that we have a huge hole up the middle, the cost to go out and get one will cost way too much. There were not really any great centers in the free agent market outside of Arnott and Jokinen. We know what Joker was and he's not a great solution. Arnott isn't much of one either but could be useful as a stop gap. In the trade market though, to get any good centers, it's going to cost you several arms and legs. Even Jokinen initially cost a good 4th liner, a good 3rd liner and a 1st round pick. A comparable would be Backlund + Bouma + 1st, and that's for a middle/bottom of the pile 1st line C.

The only proper way to address this on a long term basis is to draft skilled centers that profile out to be centers in the NHL. Jankowski is the first step in this endeavour, but it takes time and multiple picks dedicated to getting quality up the middle.

Till then, you're stuck with stop gaps like Cammalleri, or a guy like Arnott etc. We can't really do much other than overload the wings with talent and hope it compensates for the lack of skill in the middle.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The main thing is opportunity cost.

While it's not great that we have a huge hole up the middle, the cost to go out and get one will cost way too much. There were not really any great centers in the free agent market outside of Arnott and Jokinen. We know what Joker was and he's not a great solution. Arnott isn't much of one either but could be useful as a stop gap. In the trade market though, to get any good centers, it's going to cost you several arms and legs. Even Jokinen initially cost a good 4th liner, a good 3rd liner and a 1st round pick. A comparable would be Backlund + Bouma + 1st, and that's for a middle/bottom of the pile 1st line C.

The only proper way to address this on a long term basis is to draft skilled centers that profile out to be centers in the NHL. Jankowski is the first step in this endeavour, but it takes time and multiple picks dedicated to getting quality up the middle.

Till then, you're stuck with stop gaps like Cammalleri, or a guy like Arnott etc. We can't really do much other than overload the wings with talent and hope it compensates for the lack of skill in the middle.

I agree whole heartedly. It just amazed me how important the position is. Realistically, I just want to make the dance this year. But unless Jankowski develops super quick or we hit a home run in the FA/trade market, we are mildly competitive at best. I always thought #1 goalie + top forward would get you anywhere. Apparently, not so much.

[Flash Walken]

It would've been worth it to pay Parenteau what we're nearly paying to Hudler.

If you want to move on from Jokinen, that's fine. If you want to get a #1 centre via trade, that's fine too.

Sign a #2 centre if you get the opportunity so that Calgary isn't going into the season with 1 4th line centre and a bunch of 'hopefully's.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I agree whole heartedly. It just amazed me how important the position is. Realistically, I just want to make the dance this year. But unless Jankowski develops super quick or we hit a home run in the FA/trade market, we are mildly competitive at best. I always thought #1 goalie + top forward would get you anywhere. Apparently, not so much.

You want to really stun yourself, go back even further to prior to the lockout.

2004 - Lecavalier, Richards,
2003 - Gomez, Nieuwendyk, Madden
2002 - Yzerman, Federov, Larionov, Draper
2001 - Sakic, Forsberg, Drury, Yelle
2000 - Gomez, Arnott, Holik

etc.

[Split98]

Call me bat#### crazy, but I haven't given up on Backlund's potential to develop into a true #1 (or at least excellent #2) C. I'm not going to put money on it, I just haven't given up yet.

Additionally, we don't know what Cervenka can bring yet, and Cammalleri certainly has potential to be a very good C with a full off-season of focus.

We could very well look back at this team next off-season and realize we had pretty good C depth that just needed a better effort and focus.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Split98

Call me bat#### crazy, but I haven't given up on Backlund's potential to develop into a true #1 (or at least excellent #2) C. I'm not going to put money on it, I just haven't given up yet.

Additionally, we don't know what Cervenka can bring yet, and Cammalleri certainly has potential to be a very good C with a full off-season of focus.

We could very well look back at this team next off-season and realize we had pretty good C depth that just needed a better effort and focus.

I never gave up on Backlund's #1 center potential either, I never thought he had it. I always saw him as a 2nd line 2way centerman at best and more likely a really good #3

[Enoch Root]

Strength down the middle is the way to build a championship team (as the posts on here have demonstrated).

And the only way to get great Cs is to draft them.

I think the Flames are trying to do that and I believe that they should remain patient.

There is a pretty good chance that they have at least two good Cs out of the currrent crop of kids:

Backlund, Reinhart, Jankowski, Arnold, Granlund.

Keep drafting and acquiring prospects, it is simply a numbers game.

[nik-]

I'm a Backlund fan and I always hoped he would top out as a number 2 center, I didn't think he'd become a true number 1.

We need help, badly. It's too bad we have to wait so long to find out how this Jankowski experiment goes.

[cannon7]

Max Reinhart, while I don't think he'll just walk onto the roster, fits the mold of a defensively-aware second-line center.

The Red Wings aren't very big down the middle either. So you can have success without a 6'2" 220lbs #1 center.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Max Reinhart, while I don't think he'll just walk onto the roster, fits the mold of a defensively-aware second-line center.

The Red Wings aren't very big down the middle either. So you can have success without a 6'2" 220lbs #1 center.

I really like Reinhart, a very intelligent player. I think he'll be on the roster by the end of the season.

Jankowski - Reinhart as the 1-2 C punch in a few years (let's hope)

[Poe969]

Center depth can't be too Important, if it was I'm sure we would have addressed it at some point in the past 20 years if it was

I'd trade kipper if it gave us a good young franchise center, he'll I'd trade anyone for a franchise center