Chris Kyle killed

[CaptainCrunch]

Chris Kyle was considered to be the deadliest sniper who ever lived, A former Navy Seal he did 4 tours in Iraq, won 2 silver stars and 5 bronze stars and the Navy Commendation, he was shot twice and caught in 6 IED attacks, the Iraqi Insurgents gave him the name The Devil of Ramad. In 2008 he registered the longest kill when he hit a man carrying a rocket launcher from 2,100 yards away.

He wrote the really interesting book American Sniper.

He also appeared on the reality series Stars Earn Stripes, where he was partnered with Dean Cain

When he left the Military he took up the hero cause to work with veterans suffering from PTSD and physical injuries.

supposedly he also punched out Jesse Ventura in a bar.

He was killed on Sunday by Eddie Ray Routh a veteran who was suffering from PTSD, Chris Kyle and a friend took him to a shooting range as they thought it would help him with his PTSD.

Tough to read

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/ex-navy-...rans-1.1142282

[HPLovecraft]

Live by the sword, die by the sword, I guess. Guy was good at his job but seemed to enjoy what he did a little too much for me to feel comfortable.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

...Chris Kyle and a friend took him to a shooting range as they thought it would help him with his PTSD.

Sad story, but I think a Darwin Award nomination is in order.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

He was killed on Sunday by Eddie Ray Routh a veteran who was suffering from PTSD, Chris Kyle and a friend took him to a shooting range as they thought it would help him with his PTSD.

That actually seems incredibly stupid.

"Oh, so constant and incessant gunfire has driven you half mad? How about another steaming cup of constant and incessant gunfire?"

I'm shocked the guy even agreed to go to a gun range.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Locke

That actually seems incredibly stupid.

"Oh, so constant and incessant gunfire has driven you half mad? How about another steaming cup of constant and incessant gunfire?"

I'm shocked the guy even agreed to go to a gun range.

Seems weird to me too, but Kyle wasn't exactly new to this so maybe there's something to it.

[HPLovecraft]

Do other organizations do this with PTSD sufferers? I'm not an expert on it, so I don't know, but it seems absurd to me to put guns in the hands of those suffering from severe mental illness (which is what PTSD is). Use a virtual simulation like they do for some phobias, or give him blanks, or something, if there's some kind of use of this treatment, don't endanger not only your life but every other innocent person at a gun range. This guy could have turned his gun on any of the people standing there.

[pylon]

When I first heard about this yesterday, I was kinda torn.

How many innocent people could this guy have killed? How many innocent lives were affected by all the people this guy killed?

He was essentially indiscriminately blowing people away from a kilometer away in a war that was waged over completely false pretenses.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do other organizations do this with PTSD sufferers? I'm not an expert on it, so I don't know, but it seems absurd to me to put guns in the hands of those suffering from severe mental illness (which is what PTSD is). Use a virtual simulation like they do for some phobias, or give him blanks, or something, if there's some kind of use of this treatment, don't endanger not only your life but every other innocent person at a gun range. This guy could have turned his gun on any of the people standing there.

I'm no gun expert, but I'd probably introduce people with PTSD to something like pottery or yoga. I'd probably not put a gun with ammo into their hands while I stood around thinking I was helping them deal with their problems.

[CaptainCrunch]

Yeah, I agree with the extent of the question of taking the guy out to the range, but everything that I've read Kyle seemed to get good results in helping PTSD sufferers.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by pylon

When I first heard about this yesterday, I was kinda torn.

How many innocent people could this guy have killed? How many innocent lives were affected by all the people this guy killed?

He was essentially indiscriminately blowing people away from a kilometer away in a war that was waged over completely false pretenses.

How was he indiscriminately blowing people away?

One of his kills was a woman carrying a hand grenade approaching a group of marines

His long kill was an insurgant carrying a rocket launcher waiting to ambush a convoy.

we can debate all day about the cost of the Iraqi war and the rightness or wrongness of it, but in the case of Kyle its not like he was randomly blazing away at people in the streets from a km away.

If the insurgents are giving you your own nickname and offering a $20,000 bounty then your obviously doing the job you're being paid to do.

I think your making a large leap.

And if your a sniper and you're either not good at your job, or you can't do your job then your a worthless sniper

[Cole436]

The guy seemed to like his job a little too much for my liking.
Can't say I'm very sad.

[Azure]

Kyle was obviously very good at what he did.

Which is the interesting part, because he got out, and choose to spend time with his family and help guys coming back with PTSD.

Obviously accidents happen, and you really have to wonder about taking guys with PTSD to the gun range. But at the end of the day Kyle was trying to help them, which makes him a bigger hero than the government he served, considering they love to extend tours and ask more of these 'kids' than they can handle.

PTSD is far too often ignored.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How was he indiscriminately blowing people away?

One of his kills was a woman carrying a hand grenade approaching a group of marines

His long kill was an insurgant carrying a rocket launcher waiting to ambush a convoy.

we can debate all day about the cost of the Iraqi war and the rightness or wrongness of it, but in the case of Kyle its not like he was randomly blazing away at people in the streets from a km away.

If the insurgents are giving you your own nickname and offering a $20,000 bounty then your obviously doing the job you're being paid to do.

I think your making a large leap.

And if your a sniper and you're either not good at your job, or you can't do your job then your a worthless sniper

I get what you are saying, war is war. Follow your orders. And yes he was good at what he did, the best.

But in the 160 some odd people he killed, you cannot guarantee they were all evil scumbags. Many of these people felt they were invaded (which they were) and were simply standing up for being wrongfully so.

And by indiscriminately, I mean he was killing people where he had zero understanding of their situation. If the tables were turned, and the US was invaded, I am sure he would be putting his killing skills to work as well, like the insurgents. I believe one day, the Iraqi invasion, will be looked at as one of the most vile, deplorable things the US has ever done, and be a massive black eye on them in the global community. Some would argue it already is. So many needless deaths in that war, on both sides.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by pylon

He was essentially indiscriminately blowing people away from a kilometer away in a war that was waged over completely false pretenses.

Essentially your objection to this guy is that he happened to be a soldier at a time when his country entered into a conflict you disagreed with. This has absolutely nothing to do with the soldier in question who was carrying out his duty. Shooting people is part of a soldier's job. If you object to the war, blame those policy-makers responsible for waging it.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

How was he indiscriminately blowing people away?

One of his kills was a woman carrying a hand grenade approaching a group of marines

His long kill was an insurgant carrying a rocket launcher waiting to ambush a convoy.

we can debate all day about the cost of the Iraqi war and the rightness or wrongness of it, but in the case of Kyle its not like he was randomly blazing away at people in the streets from a km away.

If the insurgents are giving you your own nickname and offering a $20,000 bounty then your obviously doing the job you're being paid to do.

I think your making a large leap.

And if your a sniper and you're either not good at your job, or you can't do your job then your a worthless sniper

Well, many of the "combatants" in the Iraq war weren't military men and women. Many were civilians turned to arms in one way or another. As a result, do we have any idea why a woman was approaching American servicemen with a grenade like that? Was it because her house and family were bombed by American artillery or fighters? Was she just a brainwashed zealot? I don't know if I'd call it indiscriminate killing, but I would call it morally repulsive killing in defense of your invading force. Sure, he was probably ordered to do it, but I don't give the Nuremberg Defense much credence.

It's not exactly something admirable, where I stand, and certainly nothing to be given a label like "American Hero" over, as it seriously lessons that title when given to people that actually deserve it. There's no doubt in my mind that he likely killed some really bad people, but I also can't help but think he more than likely killed some decent people, too, that turned to weapons because of a feeling that they needed to defend their country or out of some sort of grief. There is something disturbing about so many people in a country labeling a man that has killed more than 100 people, says he has no problems, ever, with having done so, and goes on talk shows about it and makes money off of it, in an illegal and morally wrong invasion a hero.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by pylon

When I first heard about this yesterday, I was kinda torn.

How many innocent people could this guy have killed? How many innocent lives were affected by all the people this guy killed?

He was essentially indiscriminately blowing people away from a kilometer away in a war that was waged over completely false pretenses.

Do you have any basis for that? I don't think they give Bronze Stars to people who "indiscriminately" shoot people.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Cole436

The guy seemed to like his job a little too much for my liking.
Can't say I'm very sad.

His job neutralizing terrorists? You'd prefer that he just let them kill marines and other service members?

[CaptainCrunch]

[QUOTE=HPLovecraft;4053090]Well, many of the "combatants" in the Iraq war weren't military men and women. Many were civilians turned to arms in one way or another. As a result, do we have any idea why a woman was approaching American servicemen with a grenade like that? Was it because her house and family were bombed by American artillery or fighters? Was she just a brainwashed zealot? I don't know if I'd call it indiscriminate killing, but I would call it morally repulsive killing in defense of your invading force. Sure, he was probably ordered to do it, but I don't give the Nuremberg Defense much credence.[/quuote]

To the man in the field, the fact that she's brainwashed, or her house was bombed or whatever really isn't relevant at all, his job first and foremost in that case since he was in oversight is to protect American Lives. What was he suppossed to do, let her take the shot. She was approaching American's with a weapon in hand, sorry but at that point her motives don't matter.

you can argue about the legality of the invasion, but that wasn't Chris Kyles role, your debate is with the NCC.

And in this case Chris Kyle's actions wouldn't fall under Nurenburg, unless you can prove that he personally broke the Geneva convention or committed a atrocity.

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

It's not exactly something admirable, where I stand, and certainly nothing to be given a label like "American Hero" over, as it seriously lessons that title when given to people that actually deserve it. There's no doubt in my mind that he likely killed some really bad people, but I also can't help but think he more than likely killed some decent people, too, that turned to weapons because of a feeling that they needed to defend their country or out of some sort of grief. There is something disturbing about so many people in a country labeling a man that has killed more than 100 people, says he has no problems, ever, with having done so, and goes on talk shows about it and makes money off of it, in an illegal and morally wrong invasion a hero.

Again in the two cases on his sniper record and on most of the other ones he shot people that had taken up arms against him and his comrades, I don't see where he shot "decent people" he fight armed combatants in most cases armed insurgents not wearing the uniform of any national country, which is against the Geneva Convention as well.

He didn't commit atrocities by any sense of the word unless you can show me proof or evidence. You can't show me where he did anything illegal or morally wrong except in your opinion which isn't exactly binding in an actual court of law.

[AR_Six]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

WSure, he was probably ordered to do it, but I don't give the Nuremberg Defense much credence.

Jesus tittyf%!@* Christ, the guy wasn't herding Jews into a gas chamber, he shot a woman who appeared to pose a credible threat to his squadmates. How is this anything remotely unexpected? Godwin to the extreme, you just killed your own credibility just as effectively as this guy killed any insurgent.

Why is it hard for people to understand that signing on to serve in the armed forces does not equate to saying "I really feel like killing innocent foreign civilians as a job"? They did not choose the war and have every right to have faith that their superiors are doing what is necessary for the defense of their country. If they're mistaken, that is the fault of the superiors.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by valo403

Do you have any basis for that? I don't think they give Bronze Stars to people who "indiscriminately" shoot people.

there's no basis for it at all, all of his kills were against armed combatants.