Hamas Military Leader Killed (Here we go again...)

[Red Slinger]

A little surprised this hasn't been posted already but at the risk of opening up a can o' worms, Israel has attacked Hamas in Gaza killing the head of thier military wing. In addition, it has been reported that several civilians have been killed. This was done in retaliation for missle strikes lauched from Gaza into Israel, aimed at civilian populations. The missle strikes have apparantly increased in frequency over the last few weeks.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/14/wo...html?hpt=hp_t2

Israel launched a series of blistering airstrikes Wednesday on what it says are terrorist targets in Gaza, killing the chief of Hamas' military wing and at least eight others, Israeli and Palestinian officials said...

There were at least 70 strikes by warplanes and ships Wednesday, officials from Palestinian militant groups said. As night fell, more airstrikes could be heard, and Hamas security officials said four more attacks hit empty swaths of farmland in Gaza late Wednesday. The IDF said at least 128 rockets had been fired from Gaza since Saturday...

It appears that this is far from over as Hamas has, of course, sworn revenge while Israel is moving it's ground forces in position for, presumably, an invasion into certain areas of Gaza.

The UN security council held an emergency meeting on Wednesday. I'm sure they'll get a lot accomplished

With the tension in Egypt, the conflict in Syria, Iran just itching for an opportunity to go after Israel and elections coming up in Israel, this could quickly escalate.

[T@T]

Not sure what these idiots expect, you fire bombs at someone, sooner or later they'll light them and throw em back.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure what these idiots expect, you fire bombs at someone, sooner or later they'll light them and throw em back.

I'm not sure what Israel expects. You illegally occupy someone else's territory and sooner or later they will fight back.

[Azure]

Took only 3 posts to get to the 'illegal occupation' stuff. Either way, not sure what Hamas expects. Israel has always defended themselves.

[Red Slinger]

^ I don't disagree regarding the illegal occuption, namely the Israeli Settlements, however, by that logic most of the world should be justified in launching missles at civilians regularly including parts of Canada (Quebec and Natives especially).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

^ I don't disagree regarding the illegal occuption, namely the Israeli Settlements, however, by that logic most of the world should be justified in launching missles at civilians regularly including parts of Canada (Quebec and Natives especially).

The settlements are a major problem and a lot of people in Israel also agree. The occupation of the WB, Gaza and the Golan Heights were justified for defense IMO. I'm not saying that I agree with everything that has occurred during the occupations (some terrible incidents), but it's complicated.

Hamas is really the worst thing that has happened to Palestinians though. Along with some of the neighbouring countries, they use the Palestinians as pawns.

Israel proper (not including occupied territories) has a large Arab population (just over 20% of the population), and you rarely see the kind of angst from them as you do from Arabs outside of Israel. They have one of the highest standards of living for Arabs in the area. They are also well educated, politically active and some even serve in the IDF. Most also stopped identifying as Palestinian and opt for "Israeli-Arab". I think Israel has shown that they can live with Arabs, but Hamas has no interest in co-existing. Whether you agree with how the modern state of Israel was formed, the fact of the matter is that they do exist now and they can't just roll over.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I'm not sure what Israel expects. You illegally occupy someone else's territory and sooner or later they will fight back.

I think you should check your history, The Jews have as much right to that land as anyone else, infact it was theres long before the Persians or Arabs.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

I'm not sure what Israel expects. You illegally occupy someone else's territory and sooner or later they will fight back.

So whose territory is Israel occupying? Do you mean Lebanon, Syria or Jordan?

Seriously, please answer.

[CaptainCrunch]

A guy that should have been squashed a long time ago. The Palestinians will continue to have problems as long as they allow a death cult to represent them.

Hamas, the other militant groups and their Iranian backers are the biggest blockers of any kind of meaningful peace talks

[burn_this_city]

Negotiated peace isn't in Israel's best interest, it never has been. The current situation better suits their desire to continue colonizing Arab lands through settlement expansion. Firing rockets are counter-productive to the Palestinian cause, but in the last decade there have been long periods of relative peace with no substantial appetite for negotiations.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Negotiated peace isn't in Israel's best interest, it never has been. The current situation better suits their desire to continue colonizing Arab lands through settlement expansion. Firing rockets are counter-productive to the Palestinian cause, but in the last decade there have been long periods of relative peace with no substantial appetite for negotiations.

Israel's 'best interest' doesn't really fit into this thread. Had your post started with simply how Hamas firing rockets created this mess then possibly we could have a discussion.

As long as a terrorist group in any way represents any people in the region then there will not be any sort of negotiation, nor should there be.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Israel's 'best interest' doesn't really fit into this thread. Had your post started with simply how Hamas firing rockets created this mess then possibly we could have a discussion.

As long as a terrorist group in any way represents any people in the region then there will not be any sort of negotiation, nor should there be.

Hamas was first elected in 2006, before that Israel considered the PLO/Fatah a terrorist organization.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Israel's 'best interest' doesn't really fit into this thread. Had your post started with simply how Hamas firing rockets created this mess then possibly we could have a discussion.

Speak for yourself. Just because you have never had the ability to lay even a minute amount of responsibility on Israel for anything negative, doesn't mean that others can't have a discussion about the complex causes of this conflict.

On that note, I can't wait to see how the USA and Canada get's dragged into this clusterfata of a mess again.

[Ozy_Flame]

Hamas has major inroads with Hezbollah. I'm sure you can expect to see missile lobbing from across the northern border in due time, a la 2006.

If I'm a foreigner, I get the hell out of there right now as that general area seems like it's about to explode, with Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran all on loose footing.

[mikephoen]

How do you fire 70 rockets into a populated area and only kill 8 people. That's some bad shooting.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

How do you fire 70 rockets into a populated area and only kill 8 people. That's some bad shooting.

Wouldn't that make it very good shooting?

edit- what I mean is to be able to fire that many rockets into a populated area, take out a target, and limit civilian casualties. But yes, 70 seems like a lot.

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure what these idiots expect, you fire bombs at someone, sooner or later they'll light them and throw em back.

We are dealing with a crazy situation when someone from both sides of this argument could write that exact same post, word for word...

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

How do you fire 70 rockets into a populated area and only kill 8 people. That's some bad shooting.

for the most part these aren't exactly sophisticated rockets, they have no real guidance package to speak of, they basically launch them and when they run low on fuel they crash and they have a impact fused warhead.

the German V2's were more advanced.

When you don't care about what you hit, you just light a fuse and aim it at a population center.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

When you don't care about what you hit, you just light a fuse and aim it at a population center.

That's the thing. Israel targets militants, but they have what many westerners consider a poor (or debatable)standard for collateral damage. Hamas sees every Israeli as a soldier so they don't bother with targets. In this situation, I don't think Israel is above criticism every time, but I can see their point. These Hamas militants hide among the civilian population and bring the danger with them.

A few years ago, I would have been more judgmental about Israel, but knowing what I know now, I think it's the only way to deal with Hamas.

[Thor]

The social media war is interesting, lots of back and forth with stuff like this:

Size

Spoiler!