Extreme Heat in Ground Floor Condo

[Kavvy]

Good afternoon all,

My girlfriend and I recently moved into a ground floor condo and find it very hot. I have lived in Condo/Apts before and never experienced this. The unit is heated through the floors (with no vents except the 2 exhaust fans in the bathroom).

Immediately prior to our move in, they fixed a “zone valve” for our apartment, and when I google “in-floor condo zone valve” or infloor condo heat problems, it turns out that if this valve fails, you get your heat on all the time, despite the thermostat setting.

They said they fixed the valve and refuse to check it, sayings condos are just “hot”. I have yet to get a good digital thermometer to leave in our place for proof of the heat, but in the meantime, does anyone have any idea where this valve may be located? All I could find are the hot and cold water mains. If I could find it, how would you tell if it is broken (don’t know the mechanicals of in floor heating, if it is fluid based, I would assume the pipe would be hot on both sides of the valve if it was broken)?

The condo could just be “hot” but this is insane. Also, the floor seems usually warm in some places, and when I close a bathroom door, which has all 4 walls surrounded by my unit, the temperature gets hotter than the rest of the condo overnight/day. Thermodynamics would state that unless there is a heat source in the bathroom (i.e. floor heating), the bathroom should reach the same temperature as the rest of the condo.


Any idea of where I could get the piping schematic for our building?

[mykalberta]

Is heat coming from the floors? I know I shut my valve off for heating and mine is still crazy hot. I live on 5th floor West facing.

[timun]

The gist of your condo's system is this: hot water from a central boiler passes through loops of plastic pipe in the floor. The "zone valve" is a control valve that controls the amount of water that passes through the piping in the floor. It opens and closes in response to the signal from the thermostat (too cold and the valve opens, too warm and the valve closes).

This shouldn't be an issue because the boiler, wherever it is, shouldn't even be on in the first place. It hasn't been anywhere near cool enough for the boiler to turn on, even at night, over the last couple weeks.

If the boiler is running, well, that's a whole other problem beyond your control.

This may seem like a silly question but what is your thermostat set to? And which way is your unit facing? (south?)

It doesn't sound like you have air conditioning. Frankly it has been unusually warm for a while now and without air conditioning your condo will probably warm up to somewhere near the ambient temperature (25+) and stay there all night.

[troutman]

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthr...ght=condo+fans

[blankall]

We'll I can't suggest anything about your condo issues, but I've had some great success with a fan recently.

There are 2 windows in our bedroom. 2 hours before bed, I close the door to the bedroom and open both windows. Then I position the fan so it blows out the window. It creates a vacuum that sucks air in through the other window. As I'm going to bed I position the fan so the back end is out the window and its front end is pointed a the area above the bed. Fans don't suck air in that well, but they do suck in some air. So the room has already been cooled for the last 2 hours and then you get the added benefit of having cool air blown onto you while you sleep.

Works like a charm.

[troutman]

My ceiling fans worked well up to about 25 C, but when days got above 28C, they did not help so much. I will try blankall's idea.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by timun

The gist of your condo's system is this: hot water from a central boiler passes through loops of plastic pipe in the floor. The "zone valve" is a control valve that controls the amount of water that passes through the piping in the floor. It opens and closes in response to the signal from the thermostat (too cold and the valve opens, too warm and the valve closes).

This shouldn't be an issue because the boiler, wherever it is, shouldn't even be on in the first place. It hasn't been anywhere near cool enough for the boiler to turn on, even at night, over the last couple weeks.

If the boiler is running, well, that's a whole other problem beyond your control.

This may seem like a silly question but what is your thermostat set to? And which way is your unit facing? (south?)

It doesn't sound like you have air conditioning. Frankly it has been unusually warm for a while now and without air conditioning your condo will probably warm up to somewhere near the ambient temperature (25+) and stay there all night.

ahhhhhhh you made a very strong argument... darn. It was hot as heck June 1st though, prior to the heat wave... but your right about the boiler... unless somehow it is same as hot water for condo, but thats a stretch.

Can't put AC in with the windows that stick out, concave... as a renter I don't want to nail in flaps or whatever I need into the window, unless anyone has suggestions on that front

[Lithium]

Originally Posted by Kavy

Can't put AC in with the windows that stick out, concave... as a renter I don't want to nail in flaps or whatever I need into the window, unless anyone has suggestions on that front

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Kavy

ahhhhhhh you made a very strong argument... darn. It was hot as heck June 1st though, prior to the heat wave... but your right about the boiler... unless somehow it is same as hot water for condo, but thats a stretch.

Not at all. If you have a hot water tank in your unit, odds are the in floor heating runs off of that.

[Travis Munroe]

You can buy a portable ac unit that uses a dryer vent style to push the hot air out (simple configuration adding some plastic pieces which are included. No screwing into anything is needed.
Also, try sticking a fan on your patio just outside the door once it cools off in the evening and blow the air in through your screen door.

[timun]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Not at all. If you have a hot water tank in your unit, odds are the in floor heating runs off of that.

lolwut

Not likely, given that's illegal.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by timun

lolwut

Not likely, given that's illegal.

Well then the place I lived in that was built in 2005 was illegal then. It had the open loop system shown here:

http://www.radiantcompany.com/system/open.shtml

This systems require the water to be pumped year round though to avoid stagnation, so this can let a bit of unwanted heat into the system.

[puffnstuff]

Have you checked with the neighbors? Maybe see if it's just your place or if they are all like that, may help when talking to the building folks.

[timun]

There was a STANDATA information bulletin issued in 2009 by Alberta Safety Services that banned domestic water from being used in in-floor heating. It may have changed since then, I haven't double-checked, but if it you really, really, really wanted to use a domestic water heater for space heating you should push the water through a heat exchanger to keep the fluids separate.

Either way using a domestic heater is a cockamamie solution. A multi-floor condo building with in-floor heating would almost certainly use a dedicated central system with a proper boiler. It's substantially more efficient.

Not to mention he wouldn't have a zone valve if the hydronic heating was run off the domestic hot water tank.

[killer_carlson]

Ask the condo board, in writing, to reinspect the zone valve. Offer to pay or the alive if it is working properly, otherwise the corp can pay for it or it is under warranty from when they had it done.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Ask the condo board, in writing, to reinspect the zone valve. Offer to pay or the alive if it is working properly, otherwise the corp can pay for it or it is under warranty from when they had it done.

put my money where my mouth is? good idea. If i am wrong I will get peace of mind at least. Re-read this, it sounds sarcastic, it isn't suppose to.

I will first check in with my fellow neighbors as puff said!

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Is heat coming from the floors? I know I shut my valve off for heating and mine is still crazy hot. I live on 5th floor West facing.

it seems like it in some places, if that makes sense at all

[killer_carlson]

Plus if things escalate you look very reasonable to the average joe and management look silly for not following up on what couldbe covered under warranty

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by timun

There was a STANDATA information bulletin issued in 2009 by Alberta Safety Services that banned domestic water from being used in in-floor heating. It may have changed since then, I haven't double-checked, but if it you really, really, really wanted to use a domestic water heater for space heating you should push the water through a heat exchanger to keep the fluids separate.

Either way using a domestic heater is a cockamamie solution. A multi-floor condo building with in-floor heating would almost certainly use a dedicated central system with a proper boiler. It's substantially more efficient.

Not to mention he wouldn't have a zone valve if the hydronic heating was run off the domestic hot water tank.

Do you know why they banned them? Was it mostly a water contamination issue?

[timun]

I seem to recall the impetus being a couple people having died due to carbon monoxide poisoning due to tanks having been improperly installed and run all winter to maintain the in-floor heating setpoint.

There are some concerns about bacterial growth in the in-floor piping system. At the very least you should have a pump installed to flush the pipes every single day. Depending on how your system was designed and installed it may run either above or below the typical 140 F setpoint of a domestic hot water system. If it runs above that it should have a mixing valve to temper the water going to the fixtures in the house. If it runs below 140 it's... bad. Legionella will thrive in <120 F water.

(The fact that the domestic, potable system should always be at 140 F and the heating system should be... whatever it needs to be... is another reason it's a bad idea to combine the two systems using the lone tank heater.)

Also, from what I recall, the maximum length of pipe on a combined heating/domestic water system should have always been less than 50 ft on the heating side, which means your system shouldn't do more than about a room (otherwise it should have a heat exchanger and separate fluid running in the floor). I can't remember if that's in CSA B214 (the standard for installing hydronic heating systems) or if it's a local variance.