Owner selling home with renter inside

[Skyceman]

My sister recently signed a 1 yr rental lease to move into a house. After just a month, she was told that the house is being put up for sale. The owner told her they will try to sell it as an investment but the listing doesn't even state anywhere that it is tenanted. Suposedly this is listed in the realtor notes on the property but why not post it in the listing as well?

I'm a little worried as she just got settled in with her three young kids and now she has to uproot again. I thought she would have at least 3 months to move if a new owner wants to live in it but I was'nt sure. She thinks she can be pushed out sooner. She also told me that the owners realtor wants the home to look like show room condition to sell but that's not exactly easy to do having to manage a young family. I didn't know renters had to help an owner sell a property.

Does anyone on here know the lanlord/tenant rights? Can she be asked to leave quickly? What rights does she have? Thanks.

[calumniate]

Did she re-sign something to go month to month? In all fairness she should have the upper hand here. The lease is a binding agreement and what the owner is asking is for your sister to break the lease. However it seems the ball is rolling already.. I don't know much about the details so I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to pipe in. She should hold lots of the cards at this point.

[monkeyman]

I'd say all the power is in your sisters hands. the owner will need to negotiate with her if he wants her to evacuate early, which could mean a cash incentive for her to break the lease. as to keeping it clean, i'd say as long as she's reasonable in her cleanliness, the landlord nor realtor has any recourse if she doesn't keep it up to show home standards. in fact, id say that it's an unreasonable request to be made of her. tell her to document everything, even if it means taking pictures regularly as to the state of the house. just in case. Also remember, your sister will need to be accommodating as to showing the house, but that doesn't mean that the realtor can come and go as he pleases. she should try and set some ground rules with the realtor and owner as to amount of notice she is to be given prior to a showing... Remember, this is an imposition to your sister so they should work to accommodate her, not the other way around.

[3 Justin 3]

If she signed a 1 year lease, lawyer up. The Judge should bind to the contract as it is law and if not I can't see how this lease would be "unfair" so I really don't see how the Judge would tear up the contract.

From what I know (very little) your sister would win this battle. As well, if I remember correctly your sister has quite a lot of power as a renter, basically can do what she pleases with the house (within limits).

Don't let the landlord/realtor push your sister around, she signed a contract, she doesn't technically have to have the home in "mint" condition (unless in the contract it states, "If owner chooses to sell home, then renter has to keep it in mint condition").

Talk to a lawyer though.

[Regular_John]

I went through a similar thing last year. Assuming this is Alberta all the info you need is on http://www.landlordandtenant.org/

Landlord Ends Periodic Tenancy - Reasons

-You or one of your relatives intends to live in the rented premises (the relative does not have to be a blood relative, but can include a relative of a spouse by marriage, adoption or an adult interdependent relationship). A landlord which is a company cannot end a tenancy so that a corporate shareholder can live there, or a member of the shareholder's family;
-You have agreed to sell the rented premises, the buyer or buyer's relative wants to move in, and the buyer has made a written request that you terminate the tenancy;
-You have agreed to sell a detached or semi-detached unit or a condominium unit, and the buyer has made a written request that you terminate the tenancy;
-The owner intends to demolish the building;
-You are going to carry out major renovations that require the premises to be empty, (‘Major renovations’ do not include painting, replacing floor covering, or routine maintenance);
-You are going to use or rent the premises for non-residential purposes;
the landlord is a school, college, or university, and the tenant is no longer a student there, or will not be when the notice period to terminate has ended;
where the premises are subsidized public housing and the tenant is no longer eligible because his income levels are more than allowed by the tenancy agreement;
-Where the premises are subsidized public housing and public funding for the program has or will be cancelled by the time the notice period has ended;
where the premises are subsidized public housing and the tenant has not reported income or other information required in order to determine eligibility for the program;
-You employ the tenant and his employment has ended;
-You are going to convert the residential premises into condominiums. There must be a proposal to register the condominium plan at the land titles office or the plan must already be registered.

The short version:
- 90 Days notice from the start of the month
- The house must actually be sold, "I'm putting it on the market" is not a valid reason to end tenancy
- If it's purchased as an investment property (eg to be rented immediatly) there's no reason your sister has to move at all baring renovations, your sister should just get new landlords at the same property.

But having said all that your sister now has to deal with a realtor & showings and what not. So they can somewhat legally make it a really uncomfortable place to continue occupying. The fact that she just moved in and now the landlord has opted to put it on the market doesn't bode well for the landlord being reasonable about it.

The path of least resistance may be "this is the law, I just spent money moving and now your pushing me towards moving again. Let's negotiate here to make it easier on everyone" and see if she can get some moving incentives as monkeyman mentioned.

[MrMastodonFarm]

If your sister has a valid one-year lease on the place, she has all the rights in the situation.

Tell the landlord "good luck".

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by jaydorn

I went through a similar thing last year. Assuming this is Alberta all the info you need is on http://www.landlordandtenant.org/



The short version:
- 90 Days notice from the start of the month
- The house must actually be sold, "I'm putting it on the market" is not a valid reason to end tenancy
- If it's purchased as an investment property (eg to be rented immediatly) there's no reason your sister has to move at all baring renovations, your sister should just get new landlords at the same property.

But having said all that your sister now has to deal with a realtor & showings and what not. So they can somewhat legally make it a really uncomfortable place to continue occupying. The fact that she just moved in and now the landlord has opted to put it on the market doesn't bode well for the landlord being reasonable about it.

The path of least resistance may be "this is the law, I just spent money moving and now your pushing me towards moving again. Let's negotiate here to make it easier on everyone" and see if she can get some moving incentives as monkeyman mentioned.

The above only applies to periodic tenancies. Assuming that the written lease is valid and enforceable the tenant doesn't have to agree to move out early and is in control here. I had the exact same thing happen to me the summer before I started law school and it got a little nasty with the landlord, but the fixed term lease does trump the landlord's right to sell. The landlord was a dummy to sign a fixed term lease if he had any intention of selling.

Even if it was a periodic tenancy, there is no special obligation to maintain the home in some sort of especially great condition. If a realtor tells you different tell them that this represents a breach of the covenant for quiet enjoyment and that as long as you keep the house in reasonable condition as a tenant, unless the lease explicitly states otherwise that is your only obligation besides cooperating with showings. If the realtor continues to pressure, let them know that you will report the matter to RECA.

[monkeyman]

never mind, same response as onetwo_threefour.

[photon]

If the owner wants it clean beyond regular living for showings, suggest the owner to hire a cleaner!

[Skyceman]

My sincere thanks to everyone for the advice.

I'm pretty sure she said it was a fixed one-year lease but I will have a look at the contract to be sure.

She just told me that a house stager (hired by the realtor) called telling her she should be packing a lot of her things into boxes and needs to setup a time so this stager can come over and show her how to setup the house right. I didnt think that sounded right considering they are supposed to be selling it with a renter inside.

[GGG]

One important thing is for your sister to make sure she has a signed copy of all documents and maintains them and keeps good notes on everything. If this ends up in a small claims situation rather than a real court being organized goes a long way to having your evidence taken to be fact.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Skyceman

My sincere thanks to everyone for the advice.

I'm pretty sure she said it was a fixed one-year lease but I will have a look at the contract to be sure.

She just told me that a house stager (hired by the realtor) called telling her she should be packing a lot of her things into boxes and needs to setup a time so this stager can come over and show her how to setup the house right. I didnt think that sounded right considering they are supposed to be selling it with a renter inside.

This is not right. Either the owner has not disclosed to the realtor that your sister is in a lease, or else the realtor is not doing his job properly. The realtor should know that a lease is a lease, and unless your sister has agreed to move in the event of a sale, that she has full rights to ride out the lease.
The fact that the realtor is going about the sale as though it is owner occupied is just confusing. The apparent fact that the owner is acting like this is a normal way to do business (as far as landlording goes) is also baffling.
There is a lot wrong with what's going on here, and I think your sis better start taking defensive measures. I'm sure she just wants to live her life and not have to move, but I bet that they'll end up giving her a monetary incentive to GTFO so that they can close a deal. As crappy as this sounds, she better start looking, but she should hold her cards close to her chest and not let her landlord know that she's prepared to move. Because there is the outside chance that the purchasor is buying the property for revenue, and that person is happy there is a lease in place.
The business with teh stager is just BS. If that happened to me, I'd tell the landlord where to go, and how to get there. There is no reason why your sister should have to be worrying about that kind of thing, especially considering that she just signed the lease a month ago.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Skyceman

My sincere thanks to everyone for the advice.

I'm pretty sure she said it was a fixed one-year lease but I will have a look at the contract to be sure.

She just told me that a house stager (hired by the realtor) called telling her she should be packing a lot of her things into boxes and needs to setup a time so this stager can come over and show her how to setup the house right. I didnt think that sounded right considering they are supposed to be selling it with a renter inside.

Phone your sister and tell her to NOT abide, she legally doesn't have to do anything the Realtor tells her. Tell her not to cave in to the Realtor/home-owners demands. She has almost all the power.

[ranchlandsselling]

We're listing a place with tenants in there. We knew it was a possiblity, worked in into the lease, the open houses, the viewings, etc.

We've asked them to try to keep it clean as we gave them a short term lease to help with their move (construction of new house) gave them options for extensions if the sale hasn't gone through and for that they're (hopefully) going to have the place showable, and help out.

A fixed lease is a fixed contract. The owner listing the house means the tenant can choose to leave if they want, but that's the tenants right. The landlord has no rights over the tenant. If someone purchases the place they have to accept the lease. Now they can make it uncomfortable - and that can turn into a battle. But the rights are in your sisters favour!

Let us know how it works out.

Oh and a stager? hahaha, sure, let me pack all my stuff into boxes. I'd tell her to get out. She has no right to enter the premisis. Landlord can with 24 hours notice.

[Frank MetaMusil]

I had a house sell while living in it with my wife as renters. The guy who bought it wanted to continue using it as an investment property and wanted me to sign a new rental agreement, which I didn't.

We did end up moving before the end of the original 1 year rental agreement, but when people try and sell income properties with agreements in place it's similar to a tenant bailing on a landlord before the term is over.

It's a legally binding agreement for that term and I hate hearing stories like this. Amateur landlords looking to avoid going underwater IMO.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

As an FYI here's a link to the AB tenancies act:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779737925

I do have a question regarding a clause in Part 2 though. Could someone clarify exactly what this means?

Notice to terminate not required
15 Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary, notice to
terminate is not required in order to terminate a fixed term tenancy.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

As an FYI here's a link to the AB tenancies act:

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/574.cfm?pag...=9780779737925

I do have a question regarding a clause in Part 2 though. Could someone clarify exactly what this means?

Notice to terminate not required
15 Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary, notice to
terminate is not required in order to terminate a fixed term tenancy.

I believe that would only be for a specific fixed-term tenancy.

For example, if you were attending the U of A in Edmonton full time, but had a 4 month co-op in Calgary, you would sign a four month lease when you moved in, and neither you nor the landlord would need to give the other any additional notice that you'd be moving out at the end of the four months.

I've only had a couple of leases in my lifetime, but both of them had a clause that unless one of the parties gave the other appropriate notice at the end of the term, the lease would become a month to month tenancy once the fixed term ended. In those situations, it would fall under the "agreement to the contrary" part, so notice would have been required.

[onetwo_threefour]

^ Almost right, except the part about the agreement to the contrary and the confusing term 'specific fixed term tenancy'. All fixed term tenancies are specific, that's what makes them a fixed term, therefore section 15 applies to all fixed term tenancies. Notwithstanding means 'despite' or 'in spite of in more common language. That means you can't make an agreement that requires notice to terminate a fixed term tenancy, it would be contrary to the act and the notice requirement would be void. This section is one of many in the act that restrict what kind of language you can put in a lease as a matter of 'consumer protection.' If the OPs sister had a term in a fixed term lease for one year that said the lease could be terminated by the landlord on X month's notice if the landlord wants to sell, that term would be void. This is just further support for a tenant in the position of the OP's sister, even if there is a termination by notice clause it would be invalid.

Your example of converting into a periodic tenancy is a renewal provision, not related to notice to terminate the fixed tenancy. The fixed tenancy ends on the date originally specified and a new periodic tenancy starts. It only applies if you don't sign a new lease or move out.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by getbak

I believe that would only be for a specific fixed-term tenancy.

For example, if you were attending the U of A in Edmonton full time, but had a 4 month co-op in Calgary, you would sign a four month lease when you moved in, and neither you nor the landlord would need to give the other any additional notice that you'd be moving out at the end of the four months.

I've only had a couple of leases in my lifetime, but both of them had a clause that unless one of the parties gave the other appropriate notice at the end of the term, the lease would become a month to month tenancy once the fixed term ended. In those situations, it would fall under the "agreement to the contrary" part, so notice would have been required.

Thanks. I kinda figured that's what it meant. Hopefully I'm not going too far OT here, but further to the act and what Jaydorn posted with regards to periodic tenancy, does that mean unless you move in a relative, or you're doing a condo conversion, you cannot force a tenant to leave even with 3 months notice?

And to get my post back on topic, the Act clearly says you can tell that the stager can't even come in, let alone tell you to put your stuff in stupid boxes. Unless it's the landlord coming in with 24h notice, you can tell them to take off.

[onetwo_threefour]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Thanks. I kinda figured that's what it meant. Hopefully I'm not going too far OT here, but further to the act and what Jaydorn posted with regards to periodic tenancy, does that mean unless you move in a relative, or you're doing a condo conversion, you cannot force a tenant to leave even with 3 months notice?
And to get my post back on topic, the Act clearly says you can tell that the stager can't even come in, let alone tell you to put your stuff in stupid boxes. Unless it's the landlord coming in with 24h notice, you can tell them to take off.

With respect to a periodic tenancy, yes, with the addition that if it is an employee tenant and you fire them or they quit you can terminate, also if you're doing a major renovation, demolishing the property, converting it to to commercial property, or selling to someone who intends to occupy and requests vacant possession in writing. Obviously a breach of the lease agreement could also give rise to a right to terminate

With fixed term tenancies, none of these reasons, except a breach of the lease, allows a landlord to terminate on notice.