Financial Advisors

[Mike Oxlong]

Most of these guys are not Financial advisors they are strictly RRSP salesmen. They get commisions on anything you buy and don't advise you of much at all.

Find someone who is fairly wealthy themsleves. Someone who uses their own advice and has got them in a position where you want to be. A good firm my girlfriends parents use is Mawer, however you need a certain amount to invest with them. (I think it is $20,000 but I could be wrong) Although you may have that and more.

I really think Mutual Funds and the like are a rip off anyways. I stick to Real Estate and Raw Land.

There is going to be a HUGE stock market crash when all the baby boomers retire and pull all thier money out of these stocks, mutual funds etc... A lot of people are going to lose a lot of money.

Land is the way to go, doesn't cost much to get in anymore, maintenance free, it is a finite resource, and it just keeps going up in value, plus it is RSP eligible so you get the tax benefits as well. Some people even transfer their current RSP's into land investments.

If you want to be a landlord then other types of Real Estate are great but not for everyone.

[Eagle Eye]

Originally posted by Mike Oxlong@Jun 21 2005, 12:48 PM


Land is the way to go, doesn't cost much to get in anymore, maintenance free, it is a finite resource, and it just keeps going up in value, plus it is RSP eligible so you get the tax benefits as well. Some people even transfer their current RSP's into land investments.

Where can a person find out more information on this? Just want to do a little reading.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Great question. I'm in the same boat as you.

I've met a lot of 'financial advisors' but most are...well, not.

[Tron_fdc]

Okay, so now I have a question. I have a bunch of money tied up in RSP's with Manulife that I have been told cannot be cashed until I am 65. Can I use it for land investments (or other) at all???

[Eagle Eye]

Looks like we need a CP hosted 'lunch and learn' on investing.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by Mike Oxlong@Jun 21 2005, 01:48 PM
There is going to be a HUGE stock market crash when all the baby boomers retire and pull all thier money out of these stocks, mutual funds etc... A lot of people are going to lose a lot of money.

That's a bit of a broad statement don't you think? There are a lot of factors that affect stock price and retail vs institution investors is one but many factors. Many of those factors would also affect the real estate / land vehicle, particularly the interest rate, perhaps even moreso than for equities.

Land as an investment certainly has merits. But it's important to not that land also goes down in value - it doesn't always go up. It's not a can't lose proposition. Japan's real estate bubble burst in the 90's and still hasn't recovered.

CNRL split 2 for 1 (again) about a week and a half ago and went to $35. It's at $44 today (26% gain, and it settled down today). Pretty good gain for a week and a half's worth of exposure.

[Tron_fdc]

Is there a lot of people on here that play in the stock market? I know all you guys in the oilpatch (especially the beancounters) get loads of tips all the time. Maybe we could recommend a few back and forth?

[Mike Oxlong]

IHH
We have had this argument before about the merits of land and Real Estate as an investment. I guess we have to agree to disagree. Although I highly reccomend reading Rich Dad's Prophecy by Robert Kiyosaki. Very interesting read. Anyone else not convinced to put some money into land or real estate should read it as well. In fact read all of the Rich Dad Poor Dad series.

No matter what you say about Real Estate it continues to rise. Sure there are valleys and times when values go down. However as a whole Real Estate continues to rise and will always continue to rise.

How much could you buy a house for in Calgary 30 years ago? What are the average house prices now? The are far higher than they were before. Even when interest rates rose and the National Energy Program destroyed the real estate market in Calgary real estate took a hit but now it is back stronger than ever. There will be more downtimes for Real Estate but it will recover and come back more valuable than ever.

Shelter is one of man's basic needs. There will always be demand for housing and the land to build the housing on. That is why Real Estate continues to be a good investment and continues to go up.

You example of CNRL is a weak argument. Sure you can find one stock that performed well in the last week or month or even year. But for that one, how many other performed poorly? How do you know to pick CNRL? With Real Estate the market moves as a whole so it is easier to predict. With stocks even if you pick one sector it is difficult to predict. CNRL might be on the rise but another Oil/Gas company might hit the toilet.

Real Estate may go down in value but RAW Land very rarely ever does. It may plateau, but it generally picks up where it left off. It is a great investment.


For anyone who wanted to know more about the land investments and some details on them PM me with your email address and I can send you some info.

[Mike Oxlong]

Originally posted by Tron_fdc@Jun 21 2005, 07:54 PM
Okay, so now I have a question. I have a bunch of money tied up in RSP's with Manulife that I have been told cannot be cashed until I am 65. Can I use it for land investments (or other) at all???

It depends. Sometimes if they are in some type of locked in pension fund then you can't touch them until you are 65.

Other times you are able to transfer them out into other investments. A lot of times companies will tell you that you can't touch them but it simply isn't true. Again they aren't being advisors they just want your cash.

[Cowperson]

An article, with charts, compiled by a neutral third party comparing rate of return expectations between real estate and public stock markets.

http://www.cppib.ca/how/privmarket/real_estate.html

Cowperson

[Tron_fdc]

Yep. Same happened with me. I was told about some company named "Deer Creek" somethingorother. Not sure what the stock is at now, but was told it was doing quite well.

I'm too much of a puss to spend money in the market, but I should be doing it instead of leaving it in my bank account.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by Mike Oxlong@Jun 21 2005, 02:31 PM

No matter what you say about Real Estate it continues to rise. Sure there are valleys and times when values go down. However as a whole Real Estate continues to rise and will always continue to rise.

Shelter is one of man's basic needs. There will always be demand for housing and the land to build the housing on. That is why Real Estate continues to be a good investment and continues to go up.

Real Estate may go down in value but RAW Land very rarely ever does. It may plateau, but it generally picks up where it left off. It is a great investment.

Yes, we have had this debate before and I've always conceded that real estate / land is a viable and potentially attractive investment vehicle to some people.

My issue is that when I read your posts you describe land and real estate as a unbeatable vehicle, better than stocks, trust units or any other form of equities, and that it's always destined to go higher. You're right, but you can say the same for stocks - take a look at a chart of TSX indices growth of $100 from 1920 and you'll see a similar rise, complete with the peaks and valleys you mention. The common factor to both real estate and equities is time horizon - over time, you will gain with both. However, they WILL also go down. The question becomes, is that time horizon compatible with your own needs? (ie will you need that money before it's had a chance to appreciate enough to even out the 'valleys' that will occur?). It's a matter of matching up the right type of investment with the time horizon of your financial needs. Real estate in it's overheated form might not be that for everyone.

Honestly, I'm not trying to crap on real estate as an investment or open up another lengthy debate on real estate. I'm just trying to show that it's not all roses. People are asking for advice here, and I think a balanced view is important.

Fotze: I think your best bet would be to find someone that is not from the retail side of the banking industry. That means someone in their actual financial planning group, not someone's who's job is to steer you into their bank's funds and other investments. Someone with a CFP (Certified Financial Planner) designation might be a good indication of that, and that you're not just dealing with a teller trying to meet their quota for the quarter. Mike Oxlong advice is good - personal referrals are sometimes the best. I would hope that any "planner" starts off with 'what are your financial goals' and go from there. If it's 'wanna make money now '- run.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by Tron_fdc@Jun 21 2005, 02:53 PM
Yep. Same happened with me. I was told about some company named "Deer Creek" somethingorother. Not sure what the stock is at now, but was told it was doing quite well.

I'm too much of a puss to spend money in the market, but I should be doing it instead of leaving it in my bank account.

Deer Creek Energy, one of the last small independents in the oilsands not to get cozy with a Major...

Link

[Tron_fdc]

Originally posted by I-Hate-Hulse+Jun 21 2005, 09:52 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (I-Hate-Hulse @ Jun 21 2005, 09:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Tron_fdc@Jun 21 2005, 02:53 PM
Yep. Same happened with me. I was told about some company named "Deer Creek" somethingorother. Not sure what the stock is at now, but was told it was doing quite well.

I'm too much of a puss to spend money in the market, but I should be doing it instead of leaving it in my bank account.

Deer Creek Energy, one of the last small independents in the oilsands not to get cozy with a Major...

Link [/b][/quote]
Yep. Coulda got in right when they went public last year (around $8 I think). A friend of mine did just that with 10 grand he had to play with. Asswipe just bought a $5000 mountain bike.

http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/q?m=c&s=dce&d=t

[Sylvanfan]

The thing with 2010 and beyond is that it's predicted that a lot of boomers are going to start taking their money out of growth investments (stocks) and look for guaranteed fixed income. The stock market will likely go down in value as a result because there is a predicted imbalance of sellers to buyers. But it's also going to flood the market with lending capital that people want a fixed rated of return on which is also going to create competition in the lending bussiness and keep rates low. Still thats 5 years until the front end of a 19 year cohort that maxes out 12 years into that cycle starts retiring. If energy costs and the basic cost of living remains high I'd suspect that many of these boomers will opt to stay in the work force longer, and as a result keep their money in growth type investments which might bridge the gap between the boomers and the echo generation to avoid the deflation and the like that hit Japan hard. Even if the North American market has a downturn there are going to be emerging markets in China, India, South America and other regions where there will be the oppurtunity for a good capital return. Thats where a good financial advisor should be able to direct you.

Land will likely continue to rise in value, but in 5 years when all the baby boomers kids have left and they no longer desire these 4-5 bedroom homes. The market is going to be flooded with these things and this house that costs $400k today will likely cost about that same amount when theres no longer a crazy demand for these houses. Real estate is similar to equities where you have to be a step ahead of the market in order to maximize your return. If you follow the pack, and do what everyone else is doing you've likely missed out on making the big money.

[Agamemnon]

Get an off-shore bank account (initially pricey) and find some sweet third-world investment. I've heard of 'legit' returns upwards of 3.5% a month from several people I know (including a CPD officer) in Central American capital markets.

Though, the 'catch' is that some places aren't as stable as others, generating big returns, but also carrying high political/economic risks due to lack of stability/law in some of these places.

[Pagal4321]

Hmmm the old man's a financial planner........who-hoo shamless plug.
With a small company in Calgary. I can't wait till I have to deal with all of these investment companies.