BC Impounds Excessive Speeders Vehicles

[Bigtime]

Not a new story, as I believe they started doing this last year (or maybe even the year before). If you are caught speeding more than 40km/h over the posted limit they impound your car on the spot.

Now I see this story online with the Herald this morning:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...219/story.html

Some notable quotes:

Andrew Scott is still flabbergasted at what he considers overkill penalties for excessive speeding that left him and his family stranded on the side of a highway without their SUV in the middle of their vacation.


The Delta man, his wife Deanna, and two children, age four and 10, were on their way from Penticton to Chilliwack on Aug. 3 when they were pulled over by cops at a speed trap on Highway 3 east of Hope, near Manning Provincial Park. Scott was caught doing 141 km/h in an 80 km/h zone.

Well that does seem a tad bit excessive doesn't it, however reading on further we start to get to the heart of the matter, which involves passing on the 2 lane mountain roads in BC:

Scott was ticketed on the first passing lane after a winding 15 kilometre stretch on the highway. Scott said he had been behind a beat-up Volvo with a muffler dragging on the ground and two truck trailers going well below the speed limit and had pulled out and accelerated in order to overtake them.


He was at the “pinnacle of his pass” on a downhill slope and was about to fall back into the right-hand lane and reduce speed when he was clocked by a traffic cop.

I too had this situation happen to me on the 93 between Radium and Castle Junction (except I didn't get impounded as I didn't pass quite that fast). After following 2 vehicles that were constantly speeding up and slowing down and not maintaining the speed limit I hit a nice safe straight stretch, I pulled out and accelerated to about 110 to pass. Right as I started to pull back into the lane I saw the flashing lights.



The quotes in the article point out how safely passing on these BC roads is pretty much impossible on those safe stretches if the RCMP fishes for speeders on them:

“They were tracking people’s speed at the beginning of the passing lane without making an attempt to see if they slowed down,” he said. “It’s entrapment and creating a false situation where they’re criminalizing passing.”


Police will say drivers can’t exceed the speed limit in order to pass, said Miklossy.


“But my argument is, they should just essentially outlaw all passing lanes in B.C. because it’s virtually impossible to make a safe pass without exceeding the speed limit.”

I considered my ticket a lesson learned, and now try to find a nice gap in the traffic when I drive the 93 and just set my cruise at 95 and chill.


So fellow CP'ers, what are your thoughts on this?

[Bill Bumface]

I kind of agree with the guy. In many cases passing at the posted limit (90) is way more dangerous than passing faster.

If there is a long line of traffic behind a slow vehicle, and you pull out and attempt to pass, and an oncoming car comes around the next bend, it's often safer to accelerate your way out of trouble, as the column of cars may have bunched up again behind you, and ducking back in behind the slow vehicle could be quite dangerous.

[Cowboy89]

The RCMP setting up on downhill passing lanes through the mountains violates the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law was intended to change the behavior of drivers who excessively speed all the time, not impound the cars of regular folks who just want to make sure they have enough clearance to safely pass that slow moving camper or semi-truck through the mountains.

Then again that $2000 that guy had to shell out in the first article might articulate better what this law is really about.

[Bigtime]

Yeah, I'm torn on this. I've been driving the 93 for probably about 14 years. The SAFE passing spots are hard to come by, so when you do get one and pass safely for the road conditions it seems pretty harsh to have the speed trap set up there. When I do pass I definitely want to minimize how much time I spend in the oncoming lane, and clearly from this article many share that same thought process.

Now did this guy doing the 141 bite off more than he could chew and go for the multiple vehicles pass? Could he have passed at a slower speed if he only passed one or two vehicles at a time? Or were those multiple vehicles bunched so close together trying to do that would have been even more dangerous?

[puckluck2]

I have nothing to add but I am distantly related to a police officer in Calgary and did find it ironic when he had his car impounded a few months ago.

Also pretty sure it's 40 over the limit not the 30 posted in the OP that will get your car towed.

[Bigtime]

Yeah I can't remember if it was 40 or 30 over.

[FlamesAddiction]

That is true in a lot of cases. If you want to safely pass, you need to go over the speed limit on some of those roads given the number of large trucks and slow campers you encounter.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but you can't expect someone to pass a large truck at 80km/h when you only have a small window. 141km/h may have been a little excessive still though.

[burn_this_city]

It's 40 over.

[woob]

IMO, 141 is definitely excessive, even for passing. But I also agree with Cowboy, that setting up to capture speeders at that kind of spot is not the point of the law. On a single lane highway, passers should be allowed to exceed the speed limit to safely make a pass, as long as they come back to the posted speed limit within a reasonable distance after making the pass.

Highway 93 has a good handful of safe passing zones but people seem to make their own rules on that road. I've been passed at 105 (usually what I cruise at on 93, when it's safe to do so) by transport trucks, tail gated by yahoos pissed that they have to go slow because they can't pass, and even once got passed by a drifting 240zx around a corner.

[rotten42]

When I attempt a pass, I was taught to get it done as fast as possible. The longer you are in that left lane the more dangerous it is. On the way home from BC this weekend completing a pass would easily take me up to 140km,s for a brief second then once completed I would reduce my speed back in the right lane.

[burn_this_city]

The highway system and speed limits in BC are a joke.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by rotten42

When I attempt a pass, I was taught to get it done as fast as possible. The longer you are in that left lane the more dangerous it is. On the way home from BC this weekend completing a pass would easily take me up to 140km,s for a brief second then once completed I would reduce my speed back in the right lane.

It's probably a lot safer than cruise control passers who don't use the accelerator. The road rage factor it causes in that line up of vehicles is probably worse than the added danger of going 40km over the speed limit for a few seconds.

[Old Yeller]

I thought 60+ over with his kids in the car is a little ridiculous... but then I remember the strugglers on highways who go the speed limit or below until the passing lanes where they immediately jam on the gas because how dare people pass them.

I guess I came in here expecting a stupid argument from this Andrew Scott guy and I'm left agreeing with him.

[You Need a Thneed]

To me it's like this:

Not passing isn't necessarily safe, as traffic will bunch up, and people will become impatient. An impatient bunch isn't what you want.

Passing only at the speed limit is really safe at all. It would take forever to pass vehicles going 5 under the limit. It's impossible to pass vehicles going the speed limit, which leads back to the previous point.

Passing is the safest when you speed up and get out of the passing lane quickly. It's not hard to slow down once you get back into the right lane. Is 141 reasonable for the situation in the article? Perhaps not, but I'm not there. Downhill, in a pass, when as a driver, your first instinct is to get out of that lane as soon as possible - I'd probably end end going that fast.

The problem is the two lane highway, not the speeding. I'd say that speeding to pass is the safest option. It's easier to brake a bit to fit back into traffic in the correct lane than to have to speed up to fit back into that lane.

[Nyah]

We drove home from Kelowna yesterday and I can relate to the frustration with the passing issue. It seems like every time you hit a passing lane, everyone speeds up to try and pass the RV that's 15 vehicles up, rather than keeping to the right until they come to the RV. It makes for a really frustrating drive because you never really get ahead. Then of course once the passing lane ends, everyone just goes back to their normal speed. So when it comes to passing on the broken line, we would gun it to get by as many of these non-passers as possible, sometimes getting up to 120-130 (only in places where it was absolutely safe to do so). Overall though, you never really get that far ahead as you're always going to come up on another RV/semi and another 15+ cars doing the passing dance. It's such a frustrating drive.
As far as impounding vehicles goes, you'd think that an officer would use his own discretion. If a car is flying along a highway doing 40+ km's over the limit then I can understand why that car would be impounded. But if a car is speeding to pass a string of slow moving vehicles, I'm not sure. One could argue that the passing car is creating a more dangerous situation than the car going about speeding on his own. That's a really tricky situation.

[transplant99]

ANY law that allows the peace officer to act as judge and jury is an abomination to the Charter IMO. Its no different than the .05 law.

That being said, the hwy system in BC is truly horrible and yes much of that has to do with the terrain involved. On Saturday morning we were heading to Fairmont from Sicamouse, when we got right past the summit at Rogers pass and just before those boarded up hotels (or whatever they were) traffic came to a complete halt. We sat there for 4 hours and 45 minutes A major accident just on the other side of the last snowshed had made the hwy impassable and 3 people need some serious help. (all from Calgary ironically)We watched as medivac after medivac flew in and back out.

Here is a link with the images.

http://globalnews.ca/news/786837/hig...ke-and-golden/

[bc-chris]

Originally Posted by transplant99

ANY law that allows the peace officer to act as judge and jury is an abomination to the Charter IMO. Its no different than the .05 law.

That being said, the hwy system in BC is truly horrible and yes much of that has to do with the terrain involved. On Saturday morning we were heading to Fairmont from Sicamouse, when we got right past the summit at Rogers pass and just before those boarded up hotels (or whatever they were) traffic came to a complete halt. We sat there for 4 hours and 45 minutes A major accident just on the other side of the last snowshed had made the hwy impassable and 3 people need some serious help. (all from Calgary ironically)We watched as medivac after medivac flew in and back out.

Here is a link with the images.

http://globalnews.ca/news/786837/hig...ke-and-golden/

i'm not sure if you're serious...

the dude was going 61 km over the posted speed limit and if you get caught doing that there are consequences

the speeding laws are pretty clear: 40 over the posted limit = a fine + vehicle impounded. how does that make the cop the judge and jury?

if the guy was doing say 25 over and just got a fine is that an abomination of the charter? what about a parking violation? you park illegally in a tow-away zone and as a result get towed... is that an abomination of the charter?


maybe i'm missing something, i just don't see how the guy choosing to break the law and then getting caught and having to deal with the consequences of his actions is an abomination of the charter?

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i'm not sure if you're serious...

the dude was going 61 km over the posted speed limit and if you get caught doing that there are consequences

the speeding laws are pretty clear: 40 over the posted limit = a fine + vehicle impounded. how does that make the cop the judge and jury?

if the guy was doing say 25 over and just got a fine is that an abomination of the charter? what about a parking violation? you park illegally in a tow-away zone and as a result get towed... is that an abomination of the charter?


maybe i'm missing something, i just don't see how the guy choosing to break the law and then getting caught and having to deal with the consequences of his actions is an abomination of the charter?

yes...you are missing something. Remind me not to be behind you on a drive through BC. Just because it is a law, it doesn't mean it is right.

[The Yen Man]

So what happens when the impound the car? Do the cops just leave the people on the side of the road to fend for themselves? 660 was making it sound that way. What if you were a young family and had some small kids. The cops just let them stand on the highway until they can either hitch a ride back to town, or call someone to pick them up? Is this a case of journalistic sensationalism, or are the cops being real dicks about it?

[Ducay]

Worst was when I saw a guy getting towed in between Revelstoke and Golden, after getting tagged by an RCMP speedtrap. Basically in the middle of nowhere and probably the world's most expensive tow. Can't imagine then getting dumped by the RCMP in Revelstoke and having to wait to get your car out, while stuck in a town 4 hours from home. Add in 3 fussy kids, and thats gotta be hell on earth, never mind the $2k+ costs.