Harpers F35s not quite cleared for takeoff

[Slava]

A lot of people in Calgary are upset about $25M being spent on a bridge, and more specifically the process. It looks like we should be examining the federal government instead. The Auditor General released a scathing report about the F35 jets today, and its really a mess. Frankly, opposition parties have been complaining about the planes for a while and it sure looks like a lot of their concerns are being validated.

There are a lot of major issues with this one, and it will be very interesting to see how Harper handles it.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stor...al-report.html

[tenyardrambo]

I remember in the early 2000's when Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were complaining that they had to wait and share guns.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by tenyardrambo

I remember in the early 2000's when Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were complaining that they had to wait and share guns.

It worked for the Russians at Stalingrad.

[kn]

The only saving grace is that the contract hasn't been signed. I know Andrew Coyne, someone whose opinion I respect, is calling for someone to be held to account. I wonder if MacKay will be removed from National Defense.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by tenyardrambo

I remember in the early 2000's when Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan were complaining that they had to wait and share guns.

Well the issue here isn't "should we buy some planes" its much deeper. Let me try to give a Coles notes:

Remember last year around this time when parliament was asking for information and the Conservatives stone-walled them? This was the information. Basically every other country knew that the F35s were going to cost more money, but the Conservatives would not relent; they wouldn't agree to provide information on how the costs were being calculated and were finally found in contempt of parliament. The debates in our thread here on CP trivialized this and many thought that the opposition was just trying to make the Conservatives look bad for their own gain.

Well here we are a year or so later and now we see that this was an absolute joke. Public money was committed (although no contract signed yet) for billions of dollars. Either the DND was misleading the government and cabinet, or the cabinet was misleading parliament. Either way though the process was terrible and there are enormous issues of trust and oversight as a result.

There is no question though; the opposition was absolutely right in finding the government in contempt because this lack of oversight (at best) or lack of ethics (at worst) was allowed to fester rather than the Conservatives providing this information. Truly disgraceful and its no wonder people don't trust politicians to do the right thing.

[burn_this_city]

Good for Harper, I wish I could buy my own personal fighter jets.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

Awesome stuff PC's good work.

[Jacks]

If they actually get functioning planes for the money we will be about a mile ahead of the sub and helicopter fiasco's that they inherited.

[Barnes]

Lockheed Martin really Britta'd this up. I wonder if things would be different had Boeing won with the x-32?

I guess it's good news that we are such good friends with our southern neighbours who have f22s in Alaska to protect our northern sovereignty for us.

[worth]

I'm not really that pissed for the simple reason that we need new planes, and there are only so many to choose from. It's not like choosing a car, we're talking 5th generation stealth aircraft with specific abilities and interoperability with Norad and Nato. There aren't many planes that fit that bill. Just tell us what the actual cost is and get the F35 purchase done. Yes, it costs a lot of money, but we have been piggy backing off the Americans for 75 years. Get the equipment that is correct for the job and will get it done. I think the F35 is really the only option unless you go with a 4th generation design, which is not preferable.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Barnes

Lockheed Martin really Britta'd this up. I wonder if things would be different had Boeing won with the x-32?

I guess it's good news that we are such good friends with our southern neighbours who have f22s in Alaska to protect our northern sovereignty for us.

The U.S. is one of the countries challenging our sovereignty in the arctic.

[Slava]

Again, the question isn't whether we need planes. Its a question of procedure and the government willingly and knowingly withholding information from parliament. This seemingly annoying little procedural issue might cost taxpayers $12 billion dollars.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Slava

Again, the question isn't whether we need planes. Its a question of procedure and the government willingly and knowingly withholding information from parliament. This seemingly annoying little procedural issue might cost taxpayers $12 billion dollars.

How? If we need the planes, parliament can't change the cost.

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by SebC

How? If the need the planes, parliament can't change the cost.

But they can potentially change the plane in order to lower the cost. I am just unsure of what is available that will fit the requirement.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The U.S. is one of the countries challenging our sovereignty in the arctic.

Dats da point.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

There is no question though; the opposition was absolutely right in finding the government in contempt because this lack of oversight (at best) or lack of ethics (at worst)

Did they actually find the government in contempt over the F35 issue?

I think a lot of people saw the contempt stuff as nothing more than partisan games. Problem is that the opposition cried wolf so many times on stupid little things that people stopped listening.

Remember wafergate?

[SebC]

nm

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by kn

The only saving grace is that the contract hasn't been signed. I know Andrew Coyne, someone whose opinion I respect, is calling for someone to be held to account. I wonder if MacKay will be removed from National Defense.

Doubtful that McKay will be removed from National Defense. First and foremost he's probably the best defense minister that Canada has had since the late 40's. He stepped into a portfolio that nobody wanted and that successive governments destroyed.

While it hasn't stopped he's gone a long ways towards reversing the damage done to the Military under successive Liberal and to an extent Mulrooney's conservative government.

He's stopped the inevitable collapse of the Canadian Forces and returned it to being a very mission capable military.

I would expect at some point that Lockheed Martin will probably get subsidized by the U.S. government to complete the F-35 and allow it to get delivered to its allied at near the original price quoted. If that doesn't happen and they permanently lose their international orders for the F-35 and see the reduction of domestic orders then Lockheed Martin could be in serious trouble as they have rolled the dice with the F-35 as being one of the most numerous fighter jets in the world and the defacto standard for Western Airforces.

[nik-]

I thought these were going to be Canada's jets and not "Harper's" jets.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by nik-

I thought these were going to be Canada's jets and not "Harper's" jets.

I thought it was Government of Canada, not Harper Government, but there you go.