Jays/A's

[habernac]

blew a great opportunity last night. How do you have the bases loaded, 1 out and get zero runs? Vernon Wells really has to get a kick in the butt, there's no way you can go down without even swinging at strike 3. Crap. Doc's on the mound today, hopefully he gets some run support.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Things looking better tonight.

Up 3-0 heading into the bottom of the 4th, and Halladay is in the zone so far.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Pretty quiet on the ole baseball threads lately............

Anyways, big win for the Jays. Catalanatto goes 4-for-4 with a HR, and Hallday picks up his 9th win, first in the AL.

[Flickered Flame]

I hate to say it but Doc is probably the leading the contender for the AL Cy Young so far. Hopefully the A's bash around their former pitcher in tonights game. GO A's

[Sylvanfan]

Only nerds cheer for the A's.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally posted by Flickered Flame@Jun 4 2005, 08:26 AM
I hate to say it but Doc is probably the leading the contender for the AL Cy Young so far. Hopefully the A's bash around their former pitcher in tonights game. GO A's

Probably Doc, Rogers, and Garland would be the 3 leaders.

Willis far and away has been the best in the NL.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12+Jun 4 2005, 11:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jiggy_12 @ Jun 4 2005, 11:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flickered Flame@Jun 4 2005, 08:26 AM
I hate to say it but Doc is probably the leading the contender for the AL Cy Young so far. Hopefully the A's bash around their former pitcher in tonights game. GO A's

Probably Doc, Rogers, and Garland would be the 3 leaders.

Willis far and away has been the best in the NL. [/b][/quote]
I'd put Rogers ahead of Roy right now. Anyone with an ERA with 1.XX should and will be the CY Young Favorite right now in my book.

Roy is pitching amazing and I think he'll keep it up, but if Rogers keeps his season going the way it is, he'll win it.

[Mike__]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Jun 4 2005, 06:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Jun 4 2005, 06:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Probably Doc, Rogers, and Garland would be the 3 leaders.

Willis far and away has been the best in the NL.

I'd put Rogers ahead of Roy right now. Anyone with an ERA with 1.XX should and will be the CY Young Favorite right now in my book.

Roy is pitching amazing and I think he'll keep it up, but if Rogers keeps his season going the way it is, he'll win it. [/b][/quote]
I agree, I would also add Martinez to that list. He has been pitching great this year and if he can get together a few wins he will be a favourite.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally posted by CaramonLS+Jun 4 2005, 07:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaramonLS @ Jun 4 2005, 07:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Probably Doc, Rogers, and Garland would be the 3 leaders.

Willis far and away has been the best in the NL.

I'd put Rogers ahead of Roy right now. Anyone with an ERA with 1.XX should and will be the CY Young Favorite right now in my book.

Roy is pitching amazing and I think he'll keep it up, but if Rogers keeps his season going the way it is, he'll win it. [/b][/quote]
It's a tough call. Rogers has a lower ERA, but there are some other stats that halladay has a huge edge on him. Opponents On base % has Doc at .262 with Rogers at .301

Halladay's whip is at 0.97, with Rogers at 1.15. Both are very good, but Halladay's is unreal.

Halladay also leads the majors - not just the AL, in wins, complete games, shutouts and IP, and all of those categories were huge reasons why he got the CY over Loaiza in 2003.

Its close though.

[CaramonLS]

Originally posted by Jiggy_12+Jun 5 2005, 02:12 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Jiggy_12 @ Jun 5 2005, 02:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

I'd put Rogers ahead of Roy right now. Anyone with an ERA with 1.XX should and will be the CY Young Favorite right now in my book.

Roy is pitching amazing and I think he'll keep it up, but if Rogers keeps his season going the way it is, he'll win it.

It's a tough call. Rogers has a lower ERA, but there are some other stats that halladay has a huge edge on him. Opponents On base % has Doc at .262 with Rogers at .301

Halladay's whip is at 0.97, with Rogers at 1.15. Both are very good, but Halladay's is unreal.

Halladay also leads the majors - not just the AL, in wins, complete games, shutouts and IP, and all of those categories were huge reasons why he got the CY over Loaiza in 2003.

Its close though. [/b][/quote]
I know that, but Halladay had a 3.XX ERA vs. Estaban with a 2.XX ERA.

1.XX ERA is in a league of its own compared to a 2.XX ERA. One is nearly impossible to achieve the other is amazing, but human.

[CaramonLS]

Ok Jays vs. As. Final game of the series:

Chad Gaudin goes tonight at 2PM MST (4PM EST) on Sportsnet.

Great chance for anyone who wants see what this kid is all about... what a slider. Seriously, it is amazing.

[habernac]

just hope they don't p*ss this one away as well. Frustrating when you can't beat the lesser lights of the American league.

[CaramonLS]

Also just a note from Last nights game. Basically the pitching coach Brad Arnsberg and Lilly aren't talking anymore.

Lilly has decided to do things "his way", one of these things was delivery angle, Lilly prefered to be closer to the 1B side, where as Brad wanted him to be closer to the 3B side, which i guess gives you a straighter fastball, but gives your breaking pitches some more bite.

I think this spells the end for Lilly as a Jay - we have a plethra of pitching talent itching to get up to the show, so far most of them are pitching extremely Solid. Of course you never know how AAA starters will be once they get up to the bigs, but you do expect them to pitch well if they Dominate down there like some of our guys are doing.

I'll break down some of the guys you will probably see in September as far as pitching prospects go:

Starters:
Shaun Marcum: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...milb&pid=451788
Dominating in AA earned him a promotion to AAA a week ago. Threw a 7.0 IP, 0 ER, 5 hits, 8 K, 0 BB last night in his 2nd AAA start.

Franciso Rosario:
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...milb&pid=425564

Relief:
Jason Arnold
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...milb&pid=424365

Spike Lundberg
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...milb&pid=431165
Signed as a Minor league FA this off season, so far pitching the lights out in AAA and will probably stick in the show come September.

Ones you are Familar with:

Justin Miller: Has been solid as a Starter/Reliever in AAA so far, looking to get back to the game with the Jays and by all reports has improved his pitching command.

Brandon League: Something is wrong with him... He is the worst pitcher on the staff posting a 6.53 ERA. Although it was most likely a mechanical problem so we'll have to see how that goes in the next little while. He still is a big part of the Jays long term plans... anyone who can toss a 99MPH 2 seam fastball is worth keeping around (keep in mind that the 2 seamer usually is 2-4 MPH slower than a 4 seam).

David Bush: Trying to regain his starting spot got roughed up his first outting allowing 10 Hits, 2 BB, 5 ER in 6.0 IP. Expect him to settle down because he is a much better pitcher than this indicates.

And thats who you are going to see in September or before.

[CaramonLS]

Also keep your eyes peeled for this guy coming up:

Casey Janssen
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/mil...milb&pid=445163

Promoted from Low A to A Dunedin (the next step before AA because there are 6 leagues). Hasn't missed a single since his promotion.


Before Promotion:
4-0 1.37 ERA, 46.0 IP, 27H, 4 BB, 7 ER, 38K
After:
4-0 1.38 ERA, 32.2 IP, 24H, 3BB, 5 ER, 31K

If he keeps this up he'll be in AA by the end of the season... or higher. It looks like hes another one of those Rookie pitchers who decided to just "get it" this season. He has been toiling down in our minors for the last couple years, but definately this is his breakout season.

[JiriHrdina]

Interesting to hear about Lilly. I think we need a solid #2 starter though behind doc and not a rookie. The problem is that Lilly's value isn't great right now. Can we get something decent in return for him?

[rockstar]

Thanks for those updates Caramon. Some interesting players there. As for Lilly, I don't know if we can write him off just yet. Everybody knows what he can do; a slow start, IMO, would not be sufficient reason to let him go.

As for Bush, I don't like him one bit. I certainly did last year, though. The difference this year is 1) he is struggling mightily, and, perhaps more importantly, 2) the way he deals with his struggles. Seeing him spout off on John Gibbons last week after he got the hook, and seeing his reaction in the dugout afterwards leads me to believe he is a cancer in the dressing room. He's got to work on his maturity a little bit, not to mention his pitching.

That said, I like the way Gaudin is pitching (like Caramon said, what a slider), andI always enjoy seeing new young faces brought up to get a chance.

Go Jays.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I thought before the season that Riccardi was saying they had money to play with, and would basically see what holes needed to be filled before they spent it.

Well, I would say some pitching help would be a good place to start. I know it's easier said than done, but they really do need some help.

I like Halladay, Chacin and Gaudin as a top 3. Towers is OK, maybe an OK #5 guy, but he is inconsistent. I really don't like Bush or Lilly. I know Lilly has had some success before, but something about him just doesn't sit well with me. If another young guy can step up or the Jays can aquire some help via a trade (a #3 or 4 type guy), they should be in the thick of things all season long.

I just hope Riccardi doesn't pull a Craig (Pause) Button and decide not to do anything until it's too late.

[Pagal4321]

I dunno about having Gaudin and Chacin as 2 and 3. I like them as 3 and 4 options, we need another solid starter behind Halladay. We've always needed that solid #2 option, never thought Lilly would live up to the minor hype surrounding him. Now I'm not sure why you wouldn't listen to your coach, but there has got to be other factors in it.
I mean what does the coach gain by suggesting changes to make you look bad....NOTHING.
Just a childish exchange between the two of them.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally posted by rockstar@Jun 5 2005, 12:22 PM
Seeing him spout off on John Gibbons last week after he got the hook, and seeing his reaction in the dugout afterwards leads me to believe he is a cancer in the dressing room. He's got to work on his maturity a little bit, not to mention his pitching.

A cancer in the dressing room?

that's a little harsh isn't it? There has been no indication that this kid has an attitude problem except for the minor blow out between him and Gibbons. In fact, Gibbons and him have a very good relationship. And there's been no indication of any problems with Bush in the dressing room.

Kid is young and has great stuff. This isn't a guy we should write off now at all. We all remember when Doc had to go all the way down to A ball to find himself again. Clubs that give up on young arms regret it.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally posted by Pagal4321@Jun 5 2005, 11:36 AM
I dunno about having Gaudin and Chacin as 2 and 3. I like them as 3 and 4 options, we need another solid starter behind Halladay. We've always needed that solid #2 option, never thought Lilly would live up to the minor hype surrounding him.

Fair enough, I would agree.

I guess I just thought a #2 guy would be harder to acquire during the season, you'd have to give up quite a bit. At least in the off-season, you can just sign one as a UFA.

I'm thinking Halladay as your #1, and Chacin, Gaudin and (?) as 2a, 2b, 2c.

I would love to see them grab a stud starter, I just don't see it happening until the season is over.