More 'tolerance' CPC style

[longsuffering]

But his family had "personal experiences" that make it okay, right?

Link

[CaramonLS]

Read the article and see how you feel.

Did you only read the headline or something?

[jam26]

Originally posted by longsuffering@May 22 2005, 05:32 AM
But his family had "personal experiences" that make it okay, right?

Link

Inappropriate comments, but having read in the past about what the Japanese' POWs went through, I'm not going to defend them.
bas**rds is a pretty mild term for those who were behind the treatment their POWs received.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Those Japanese that acted the way in which they did were bas**rds, and a hell of a lot worse. I strongly suggest that you read up, hell read anything on the subject and then tell me they were not bas**rds. The Japs part was over the line, and that is definantly the case, but I don't think it was an insult towards the entire Japanese community, but rather just those inhuman monsters that killed so many of our young men, women and also children who were caught in Japanese territory at the time.

[CaramonLS]

Also, try looking up some of the war attrocities that Japanese Soldiers/Docs performed on American/Chinese POWs.

It makes Nazi's look like angels.

Live Vivisections (without anastetics) on american soldiers in front of a class of Japanese University students... Is just one example.

[Thunderball]

You know, I really hate when crap like this is blown out of proportion.

Is that guy a dumb ass for saying it? yes

Is it a way someone might describe enemy soldiers to a family member? yes.

Is it a way to describe some of the atrocities committed that many people don't realize happened? yes, but definitely not a classy way to do so. He was probably scarred by his grandfather's stories.

Would it be as big of a deal if he said Nazi pig or bas**rd? probably no.

Should all Conservatives be judged by this display? no.

Is this yet another ridiculous way to try to peg Conservatives as intolerant racist pigs? Yes. These comments know no political affiliation, and it wasn't long ago when Liberal MPs accused people in Interior BC of burning crosses. No one thinks the Liberals are racist cause of it. Please drop this.

[Claeren]

As a member of government he needs to live up to a higher standard.

If he was a private individual go ahead, condemn WWII Japanese actions in whatever terms you'd like.

But as a paid member of parliment representing the diverse interests of thousands of people in his riding? PC language is kind of a no-brainer....


People have every right to be concerned when one party consistantly makes such remarks/mistakes. If members from that party are elected and their Prime Minister is in Germany do Canadians want him going on about 'Nazi bas**rds'? Or on a trade mission to Japan do we want the local papers talking about how our Prime Minister secretly harbours hate towards 'Jap bas**rds'? Or in South Africa or at the UN going on about how Mandela is nothing but a dirty terrorist?

All might (or not) be valid, they just don't need to be emphased without thought by government representatives.


There is a better and more professional way for an elected official to say that the Japanese made mistakes... for people in the east to hold us to that standard is not unreasonable....

Claeren.

[Resolute 14]

The Liberals said Fletcher's outburst is yet more evidence that the Conservatives are an angry party led by people with narrow views.

There's a hypocritical statement if I ever heard one.

The conservatives are narrow because one man called the perpetrators of one of the most disgusting events in human history what they were, yet the Liberals are some kind of beacon of light despite their own long list of bigotted statements (Fry, Volpe, etc) and repeated verbal attacks against Americans.

Though, of course, Volpe's comparison of the Conservatives to the KKK was only worth a three paragraph article buried in the back pages of the papers, but this is worthy of a full article, prominently displayed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Claeren@May 22 2005, 04:51 PM
As a member of government he needs to live up to a higher standard.

If he was a private individual go ahead, condemn WWII Japanese actions in whatever terms you'd like.

But as a paid member of parliment representing the diverse interests of thousands of people in his riding? PC language is kind of a no-brainer....


People have every right to be concerned when one party consistantly makes such remarks/mistakes. If members from that party are elected and their Prime Minister is in Germany do Canadians want him going on about 'Nazi bas**rds'? Or on a trade mission to Japanses do we want the local papers talking about how our Prime Minister secretly harbours hate towards 'Jap bas**rds'? Or in South Africa or at the UN going on about how Mandela is nothing but a dirty terrorist?

All might (or not) be valid, they just don't need to be emphased without thought by government representatives.


There is a better and more professional way for an elected official to say that the Japanese made mistakes... for people in the east to hold us to that standard is not unreasonable....

Claeren.

If your going to live up to this higher standards, then you should be absolutely outraged by the Liberal comments about the KKK, cross burning, Parrishes rants against the Amercans and others.

You should be reaching the same conclusions about the Liberal members as the conservatives.

But as it stands, when a Liberal does it we hear little if anything, hell even an apology is not demanded.

But when a conservative does it, the world comes to an end and we start hearing statements about hatemongering and intolerance.

The Conservatives have to live up to an impossible double standard, that our government doesn't have to.

Thats whats so annoying and frustrating for people like me.

Should he have stated things the way he stated it, probably not, but what he said was not untrue, and was pulled from feelings as opposed to a political agenda, and even though he did apologize on hind site, the topic header was a typically snotty "Replying to More 'tolerance' CPC style", without even looking past that first banner. Its apparent that even if the CPC came out and said they would honour any Liberal deals in case of election, or they came out with a platform of pupppies and money for orphans, it would be ignored because people who support the Liberals are so far sold on thier theory that the CPC are social de-constructuralists who hate everything and everybody and just want to get thier hands on the charter, that they refuse to listen to anything beyond thier own personal theories.

Somehow in Canadian politics, the message has become completely lost, and it has become a battle of style over substance.

You could also say the same thing about CPC supporters and the Liberals in the west, but the Conservatives have attempted reproachment with the East, while the Liberals have abandoned any reproachment with the west.

[Flame On]

Snakeye I've been told off before in threads that are about Liberal transgressions for defending them by stating CPC ones. Admit that's what you just did, just as you could probably admit that given the options of having said this or not, if you had your choice you'd probably pick not.
Boil it down and you still have a lack of judgement. A party with tolerance perception problems shouldn't be straying into that sort of minefield.
I haven't heard of Liberals being caught up in stuff like this or any other party.
So it's a double whamy they stray into areas which people will then point and say "look they're racial profiling" or something or they can be shown as having dreadful lack of leadership/judgement.
Whether I understand the reasons or the historical background why would they let themselves get caught up in that!?
Further in order to justify that it's all right really the Japanese were bas**rds, well going by that show me a group that weren't at one point.
Russians under Stalin, Napleonic French, English all over the world, Spanish Conquistadors, Germans (nuff said), US in Vietnam etc. etc. Show me a country without skeletons in their closet you could call them bas**rds for and you could go round saying it to any group you wanted. Hardly diplomatic.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@May 22 2005, 10:05 AM
f your going to live up to this higher standards, then you should be absolutely outraged by the Liberal comments about the KKK, cross burning, Parrishes rants against the Amercans and others.

You should be reaching the same conclusions about the Liberal members as the conservatives.

But as it stands, when a Liberal does it we hear little if anything, hell even an apology is not demanded.

But when a conservative does it, the world comes to an end and we start hearing statements about hatemongering and intolerance.

The Conservatives have to live up to an impossible double standard, that our government doesn't have to.

Thats whats so annoying and frustrating for people like me.

Should he have stated things the way he stated it, probably not, but what he said was not untrue, and was pulled from feelings as opposed to a political agenda, and even though he did apologize on hind site, the topic header was a typically snotty "Replying to More 'tolerance' CPC style", without even looking past that first banner. Its apparent that even if the CPC came out and said they would honour any Liberal deals in case of election, or they came out with a platform of pupppies and money for orphans, it would be ignored because people who support the Liberals are so far sold on thier theory that the CPC are social de-constructuralists who hate everything and everybody and just want to get thier hands on the charter, that they refuse to listen to anything beyond thier own personal theories.

Somehow in Canadian politics, the message has become completely lost, and it has become a battle of style over substance.

You could also say the same thing about CPC supporters and the Liberals in the west, but the Conservatives have attempted reproachment with the East, while the Liberals have abandoned any reproachment with the west.

Shall we start this up again Captain?
Or you could be justified with those comments because of their disparagment against Italians by maintaining they're all mafia types. Look that's Italians they've got preconceived ideas about and now "Japs" too.
Oh and for the record I'm with you on the statements about Americans by Parrish, but oh look she was dealt with. A message was sent that that's not tolerated in the Liberal party.

[Claeren]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 22 2005, 10:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 22 2005, 10:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@May 22 2005, 04:51 PM
As a member of government he needs to live up to a higher standard.

If he was a private individual go ahead, condemn WWII Japanese actions in whatever terms you'd like.

But as a paid member of parliment representing the diverse interests of thousands of people in his riding? PC language is kind of a no-brainer....


People have every right to be concerned when one party consistantly makes such remarks/mistakes. If members from that party are elected and their Prime Minister is in Germany do Canadians want him going on about 'Nazi bas**rds'? Or on a trade mission to Japanses do we want the local papers talking about how our Prime Minister secretly harbours hate towards 'Jap bas**rds'? Or in South Africa or at the UN going on about how Mandela is nothing but a dirty terrorist?

All might (or not) be valid, they just don't need to be emphased without thought by government representatives.


There is a better and more professional way for an elected official to say that the Japanese made mistakes... for people in the east to hold us to that standard is not unreasonable....

Claeren.

If your going to live up to this higher standards, then you should be absolutely outraged by the Liberal comments about the KKK, cross burning, Parrishes rants against the Amercans and others.

You should be reaching the same conclusions about the Liberal members as the conservatives.

But as it stands, when a Liberal does it we hear little if anything, hell even an apology is not demanded.

But when a conservative does it, the world comes to an end and we start hearing statements about hatemongering and intolerance.

The Conservatives have to live up to an impossible double standard, that our government doesn't have to.

Thats whats so annoying and frustrating for people like me.

Should he have stated things the way he stated it, probably not, but what he said was not untrue, and was pulled from feelings as opposed to a political agenda, and even though he did apologize on hind site, the topic header was a typically snotty "Replying to More 'tolerance' CPC style", without even looking past that first banner. Its apparent that even if the CPC came out and said they would honour any Liberal deals in case of election, or they came out with a platform of pupppies and money for orphans, it would be ignored because people who support the Liberals are so far sold on thier theory that the CPC are social de-constructuralists who hate everything and everybody and just want to get thier hands on the charter, that they refuse to listen to anything beyond thier own personal theories.

Somehow in Canadian politics, the message has become completely lost, and it has become a battle of style over substance.

You could also say the same thing about CPC supporters and the Liberals in the west, but the Conservatives have attempted reproachment with the East, while the Liberals have abandoned any reproachment with the west. [/b][/quote]
That is somewhat correct, and i agree - the liberals do need to live up to a higher standard as well.


BUT the Liberals are not struggling with an image of bigots and red necks - the Conservative ARE.


If over the next 5 years the Liberals consistantly got caught in scam after scam then they would be in a similiar situation. A mistake becomes a habit and that habit gets in to the minds of the voters... Each party has problem areas and each would be best to avoid saying/doing things to exaggerate those images more then need be. The Conservatives have managed two incidents within a week, WAY TO GO!

Like i said, the problem is not the eastern voters it is the Conservative Party. Where is the leadership, vision, and breadth? How do you win over eastern women when you call politically savy women whores? How do you win over the minority vote if you insist on refering to long dead Japanese war criminals as Jap bas**rds?

The type of party needed to win the hearts and minds of the majority of this nation HAS to be smarter then that.

I would argue the fact that so many CPC supporters and the fact the western media never pushes that fact or gives the current leadership a hard time is why there is such a problem. If the Calgary Sun trashed bad political plays by conservatives then they would learn better and clean house. If the Calgary Sun searches and searches and yet still cannot find anything bad to say then maybe neither could the evil CBC?


Claeren.

[Resolute 14]

The Liberals dont struggle with that image because they are the ones that control the propaganda machine. As was mentioned, there is an incredible double standard that exists in this country.

Just another reason for us to tell Canada to kiss off.

Flame On - My post wasnt necessaraly meant to defend those comments, though I've never felt the need to worry about being PC, so in the context of the statement, I have very little problem with it. However, if the Liberals want to be making blanket attacks on another party, they had best make sure they aren't guilty of the same crimes.

Like I said, the Liberals are just so incredibly hypocritical, however the sheep just eat their hypocricy up.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Flame On@May 22 2005, 10:22 AM
Shall we start this up again Captain?
Or you could be justified with those comments because of their disparagment against Italians by maintaining they're all mafia types.# Look that's Italians they've got preconceived ideas about and now "Japs" too.

Sorry ot say this but pull your head out of your ass. No one said that all Italians were mafia types... well the Liberals went on a tear about how that was what the CPC stood for, but you know with nothign to back that up. Hell if the Liberals were that concerned about the way in which the Italian community was being represented would they not go to the source, and you know try and stop the Sopranos from being shown in Canada.... no. Actually according to the CRTC and the cabinet member responsible there was nothing of the sort that could be seen on the show.... well until the CPC has a member which was holding a poster which compared the Liberals to a criminal organization. N one was saying that all Liberals were Italian, or that all Italians were Liberals, or that all Liberals were members of the Italian mafia, or that all italians were criminals. It is a huge reach to come to that conclusion, and one which is not only unsubstantiated, but it is actually foolish. If it was a Russian mafia that the Liberals faces photoshopped in, would that mean that the conservatives hate all Russians, and if they hate Russians do they then support the Chechians, or that all Russians used to be run under a communist state, and China is a communist state, so that means that all CPC party members hate the Chinese.

He shouldn't have said Japs, no one is disagreeing with that. He appologized, and admitted his mistake, something the Liberal party has been unwilling to do for the past decade, well where would they find the time, they have to continually insult and slander anyone who is the least bit right of center. A complete double standard exists, and one that I am getting sick and tired of.

But then again who am I do say anything, I support the CPC, so I guess I am a biggoted slack jawed yokel.

Claeren I can guarentee you that if you look into each party you will find that there are individuals who put their foots in their mouth. Hell Jean Chretian was invovled in pepper-spraying peacefull protesters and also stangleing them. Then using quotes from a provincial politican to make your case (the Alberta MLA) hell why don't we just say that all Liberal drink and drive, because if you look at the Liberal Party of BC.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Flame On+May 22 2005, 05:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ May 22 2005, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If your going to live up to this higher standards, then you should be absolutely outraged by the Liberal comments about the KKK, cross burning, Parrishes rants against the Amercans and others.

You should be reaching the same conclusions about the Liberal members as the conservatives.

But as it stands, when a Liberal does it we hear little if anything, hell even an apology is not demanded.

But when a conservative does it, the world comes to an end and we start hearing statements about hatemongering and intolerance.

The Conservatives have to live up to an impossible double standard, that our government doesn't have to.

Thats whats so annoying and frustrating for people like me.

Should he have stated things the way he stated it, probably not, but what he said was not untrue, and was pulled from feelings as opposed to a political agenda, and even though he did apologize on hind site, the topic header was a typically snotty "Replying to More 'tolerance' CPC style", without even looking past that first banner. Its apparent that even if the CPC came out and said they would honour any Liberal deals in case of election, or they came out with a platform of pupppies and money for orphans, it would be ignored because people who support the Liberals are so far sold on thier theory that the CPC are social de-constructuralists who hate everything and everybody and just want to get thier hands on the charter, that they refuse to listen to anything beyond thier own personal theories.

Somehow in Canadian politics, the message has become completely lost, and it has become a battle of style over substance.

You could also say the same thing about CPC supporters and the Liberals in the west, but the Conservatives have attempted reproachment with the East, while the Liberals have abandoned any reproachment with the west.

Shall we start this up again Captain?
Or you could be justified with those comments because of their disparagment against Italians by maintaining they're all mafia types. Look that's Italians they've got preconceived ideas about and now "Japs" too. [/b][/quote]
If you want to I'm fine. But I left this the last time as a simple.

The Conservatives put the faces of Liberal's on the poster for a popular T.V. show, it was satire and not race related at all. If Volpe has a problem with the Soprano's as a portrayal of Italians in the mob, then maybe he should get HBO taken off of the air.

the show is about a organized crime family that infiltrates legitimate business for its criminal means, sounds like the Liberal party to me.

It was a statement of satire and comparison, not against Italians living in communities. But Volpe seeing an opportunity to secure votes spins it that way.

Do you watch the Soprano's because I do, its entertainment and not a race statement, I don't sit there and curse Italian's and I certainly didn't look at that poster and say those no good liberal's are just like the Italians, I said those no good liberal's are just like the Soprano crime family.

But I'm glad that Volpe is there with his low opinion of our intelligence. Thank god he's there to tell us how to think and interepret a poster from a T.V. show that was modified. If Volpe was consistant can you please provide me with quotes leading back to year one of the Soprano's where he stated that the show was racist against Italians. You'd be hard pressed to find it because it ain't there.

Volpe did a great job as an opportunist spin doctor who managed to further accuse the CPC of being intolerant and hateful.

But Flame On, whatever floats your boat where you justify me being intolerant or racists or anyone that would rather see the CPC or anyone else in power as opposed to the Liberals.

And on the Jap bas**rd comment, again was the wrong misnomer used, yes, however he was speaking at a veterans gathering about the Japanese and thier conduct in the second world war. He was not talking about all japanese, and he was certainly not talking about post world war II japanese, but of course instead of trying to understand what he was saying or his message, you bought out the whole racial profiling thing and the hate lecture.

But again whatever floats your boats.

You and me are never going to see eye to eye on this, I don't see a reason to even try.

But again what I said earlier is completely true. It seems that in the media and with Liberal supporters, the Liberals get a complete free pass, while the Conservatives get trashed and profiled. The Liberals make statements about the Conservatives being the KKK, about cross burning in B.C. about evil hidden agendas, about hating American's and Albertans. And they snicker like school children and congratulate themselves on how clever they are, and nobody takes them to task.

I'd be surprised if you ever came out with a statment of damnation for Parrish, or Volpe or Frey, because in your mind its not as bad as Harper, and Fletcher and other conservatives who speak off of the cuff.

It kills me how Liberal's and thier supporters are so quick to justify thier actions, and when Conservatives attempt to do the same thing, its like the second coming of Ghengis Khan and the Aryan Nations.

I stand by my statment about Canadian Politics.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Claeren+May 22 2005, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Claeren @ May 22 2005, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

If your going to live up to this higher standards, then you should be absolutely outraged by the Liberal comments about the KKK, cross burning, Parrishes rants against the Amercans and others.

You should be reaching the same conclusions about the Liberal members as the conservatives.

But as it stands, when a Liberal does it we hear little if anything, hell even an apology is not demanded.

But when a conservative does it, the world comes to an end and we start hearing statements about hatemongering and intolerance.

The Conservatives have to live up to an impossible double standard, that our government doesn't have to.

Thats whats so annoying and frustrating for people like me.

Should he have stated things the way he stated it, probably not, but what he said was not untrue, and was pulled from feelings as opposed to a political agenda, and even though he did apologize on hind site, the topic header was a typically snotty "Replying to More 'tolerance' CPC style", without even looking past that first banner. Its apparent that even if the CPC came out and said they would honour any Liberal deals in case of election, or they came out with a platform of pupppies and money for orphans, it would be ignored because people who support the Liberals are so far sold on thier theory that the CPC are social de-constructuralists who hate everything and everybody and just want to get thier hands on the charter, that they refuse to listen to anything beyond thier own personal theories.

Somehow in Canadian politics, the message has become completely lost, and it has become a battle of style over substance.

You could also say the same thing about CPC supporters and the Liberals in the west, but the Conservatives have attempted reproachment with the East, while the Liberals have abandoned any reproachment with the west.

That is somewhat correct, and i agree - the liberals do need to live up to a higher standard as well.


BUT the Liberals are not struggling with an image of bigots and red necks - the Conservative ARE.


If over the next 5 years the Liberals consistantly got caught in scam after scam then they would be in a similiar situation. A mistake becomes a habit and that habit gets in to the minds of the voters... Each party has problem areas and each would be best to avoid saying/doing things to exaggerate those images more then need be. The Conservatives have managed two incidents within a week, WAY TO GO!

Like i said, the problem is not the eastern voters it is the Conservative Party. Where is the leadership, vision, and breadth? How do you win over eastern women when you call politically savy women whores? How do you win over the minority vote if you insist on refering to long dead Japanese war criminals as Jap bas**rds?

The type of party needed to win the hearts and minds of the majority of this nation HAS to be smarter then that.

I would argue the fact that so many CPC supporters and the fact the western media never pushes that fact or gives the current leadership a hard time is why there is such a problem. If the Calgary Sun trashed bad political plays by conservatives then they would learn better and clean house. If the Calgary Sun searches and searches and yet still cannot find anything bad to say then maybe neither could the evil CBC?


Claeren. [/b][/quote]
You know something Claeren, I've completely accepted that, I've accepted that the Conservatives need to build a message.

However when the Conservatives stated clearly that they would honour all Liberal agreements if an election were called, the Eastern press mearly gave it a byline while at the same time the Liberal's were telling everyone that the Conservatives would destroy these plans, the eastern media played it up.

It wouldn't matter if again the Conservatives came out with a platform that the East could live with, the Liberal's would play up hidden agenda in the press, and the conservative message wouldn't get throught.

Thats why I have a lot of problems with Canadian politics, thats why I'm so cynical of the election process in this country.

Understand me, I don't disagree with what you say about moderating the party, I just don't buy the fact that the message would ever truly get out, because Canadian politics Liberal style is not about the message, its about half truths, mis direction and fear mongering.

So I'm sorry if I don't believe that democracy in its current form works.

[Flame On]

Originally posted by Mean Mr. Mustard+May 22 2005, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mean Mr. Mustard @ May 22 2005, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Flame On@May 22 2005, 10:22 AM
Shall we start this up again Captain?
Or you could be justified with those comments because of their disparagment against Italians by maintaining they're all mafia types.# Look that's Italians they've got preconceived ideas about and now "Japs" too.

Sorry ot say this but pull your head out of your ass. No one said that all Italians were mafia types... well the Liberals went on a tear about how that was what the CPC stood for, but you know with nothign to back that up. Hell if the Liberals were that concerned about the way in which the Italian community was being represented would they not go to the source, and you know try and stop the Sopranos from being shown in Canada.... no. Actually according to the CRTC and the cabinet member responsible there was nothing of the sort that could be seen on the show.... well until the CPC has a member which was holding a poster which compared the Liberals to a criminal organization. N one was saying that all Liberals were Italian, or that all Italians were Liberals, or that all Liberals were members of the Italian mafia, or that all italians were criminals. It is a huge reach to come to that conclusion, and one which is not only unsubstantiated, but it is actually foolish. If it was a Russian mafia that the Liberals faces photoshopped in, would that mean that the conservatives hate all Russians, and if they hate Russians do they then support the Chechians, or that all Russians used to be run under a communist state, and China is a communist state, so that means that all CPC party members hate the Chinese.

He shouldn't have said Japs, no one is disagreeing with that. He appologized, and admitted his mistake, something the Liberal party has been unwilling to do for the past decade, well where would they find the time, they have to continually insult and slander anyone who is the least bit right of center. A complete double standard exists, and one that I am getting sick and tired of.

But then again who am I do say anything, I support the CPC, so I guess I am a biggoted slack jawed yokel.

Claeren I can guarentee you that if you look into each party you will find that there are individuals who put their foots in their mouth. Hell Jean Chretian was invovled in pepper-spraying peacefull protesters and also stangleing them. Then using quotes from a provincial politican to make your case (the Alberta MLA) hell why don't we just say that all Liberal drink and drive, because if you look at the Liberal Party of BC. [/b][/quote]
No you get your head out of your ass. They still picked people who either were or looked like italians for a picture of mafia types. That suggests they can throw someone like that in an add, photoshopped or not and perpetuate a stereotype.
To me that shows idiocy from a party that has perception problems.
Further I couldn't care less about brandishing the KKK. I don't see how that's offensive unless you're a part of that org, or you're using it out of context. Which I don't think they were. I'm prepared to admit it was over the top and they could be wiser in their reproachment in that case but that's it.
Further did you not see Martin on TV personally appologising!! and promising to replace any money proven taken??? You may not buy his words or believe the sentiment but he made an unscheduled tv spot to specifically appologies and explain his position. Maybe you didn't see it you know, your head being so far up your own rectum and all

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Flame On+May 22 2005, 05:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Flame On @ May 22 2005, 05:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Sorry ot say this but pull your head out of your ass. No one said that all Italians were mafia types... well the Liberals went on a tear about how that was what the CPC stood for, but you know with nothign to back that up. Hell if the Liberals were that concerned about the way in which the Italian community was being represented would they not go to the source, and you know try and stop the Sopranos from being shown in Canada.... no. Actually according to the CRTC and the cabinet member responsible there was nothing of the sort that could be seen on the show.... well until the CPC has a member which was holding a poster which compared the Liberals to a criminal organization. N one was saying that all Liberals were Italian, or that all Italians were Liberals, or that all Liberals were members of the Italian mafia, or that all italians were criminals. It is a huge reach to come to that conclusion, and one which is not only unsubstantiated, but it is actually foolish. If it was a Russian mafia that the Liberals faces photoshopped in, would that mean that the conservatives hate all Russians, and if they hate Russians do they then support the Chechians, or that all Russians used to be run under a communist state, and China is a communist state, so that means that all CPC party members hate the Chinese.

He shouldn't have said Japs, no one is disagreeing with that. He appologized, and admitted his mistake, something the Liberal party has been unwilling to do for the past decade, well where would they find the time, they have to continually insult and slander anyone who is the least bit right of center. A complete double standard exists, and one that I am getting sick and tired of.

But then again who am I do say anything, I support the CPC, so I guess I am a biggoted slack jawed yokel.

Claeren I can guarentee you that if you look into each party you will find that there are individuals who put their foots in their mouth. Hell Jean Chretian was invovled in pepper-spraying peacefull protesters and also stangleing them. Then using quotes from a provincial politican to make your case (the Alberta MLA) hell why don't we just say that all Liberal drink and drive, because if you look at the Liberal Party of BC.

No you get your head out of your ass. They still picked people who either were or looked like italians for a picture of mafia types. That suggests they can throw someone like that in an add, photoshopped or not and perpetuate a stereotype.
To me that shows idiocy from a party that has perception problems.
Further I couldn't care less about brandishing the KKK. I don't see how that's offensive unless you're a part of that org, or you're using it out of context. Which I don't think they were. I'm prepared to admit it was over the top and they could be wiser in their reproachment in that case but that's it.
Further did you not see Martin on TV personally appologising!! and promising to replace any money proven taken??? You may not buy his words or believe the sentiment but he made an unscheduled tv spot to specifically appologies and explain his position. Maybe you didn't see it you know, your head being so far up your own rectum and all [/b][/quote]
holy, I don't even know how to respond to that, but it gives me a clear view of how you think.

Let see if I have this straight.

Conservatives lampoon a Television show poster by placing Liberal heads on characters bodies and in your mind its a crime against humanity.

Yet its ok in your mind to compare the conservatives to a group that murdered blacks, supressed civil rights, burned down churches because in your perception it accurate, and shouldn't be insulting unless your part of the organization. Wow why don't you just come out and say that you think anyone that votes for the Conservatives is a racist, and "should" join the KKK because we think that way.


Wow, unreal, I can see that there's no use even looking at your posts anymore.

And your willing to buy Martins face value apology based on what, his merits. And then you go onto a lecture about us not believeing him because we have our heads up our ass. He must have done something mighty powerful to gain your faith.

But wow on your whole post, now I've seen it all except for a man eating his own head.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Flame On@May 22 2005, 10:55 AM
No you get your head out of your ass. They still picked people who either were or looked like italians for a picture of mafia types. That suggests they can throw someone like that in an add, photoshopped or not and perpetuate a stereotype.
To me that shows idiocy from a party that has perception problems.
Further I couldn't care less about brandishing the KKK. I don't see how that's offensive unless you're a part of that org, or you're using it out of context. Which I don't think they were. I'm prepared to admit it was over the top and they could be wiser in their reproachment in that case but that's it.
Further did you not see Martin on TV personally appologising!! and promising to replace any money proven taken??? You may not buy his words or believe the sentiment but he made an unscheduled tv spot to specifically appologies and explain his position. Maybe you didn't see it you know, your head being so far up your own rectum and all

Are you talking abou the Libpranos poster? The one with Chretien, Martin, Gagliano, etc? I'm curious, what makes one "look" like an Italian? That seems rather stereotypical.

I also sincerly hope you stayed out of the "whore is a slander against an entire gender" argument if you have no problem with a Liberal minister comparing the Conservatives to the KKK. Given that the KKK is universally synonomous with racism, one would think that you would be incredibly offended at such a characterization.

But then, you are evidently living proof of the double standard that exists in this country. Liberals get a free ride, while Conservatives are forced to live up to an impossible standard.

As for Martin's Bertuzzi-like press conference, I'm not surprised you are sympathetic to him co-opting the air waves to try and save his own ass. Where past Prime Ministers have only done so in times of national crisis, Martin did so because of a personal crisis - he was in danger of losing his job.

As for returning the money, I have no faith in Martin and the Liberals other than to expect them to repay that money out of our own pockets. Perhaps Martin should repay that money out of his own wallet. I am certian he is saving more than enough by evading Canadian taxes on his shipping fleet.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by Flame On@May 22 2005, 10:55 AM
No you get your head out of your ass. They still picked people who either were or looked like italians for a picture of mafia types. That suggests they can throw someone like that in an add, photoshopped or not and perpetuate a stereotype.
To me that shows idiocy from a party that has perception problems.
Further I couldn't care less about brandishing the KKK. I don't see how that's offensive unless you're a part of that org, or you're using it out of context. Which I don't think they were. I'm prepared to admit it was over the top and they could be wiser in their reproachment in that case but that's it.
Further did you not see Martin on TV personally appologising!! and promising to replace any money proven taken??? You may not buy his words or believe the sentiment but he made an unscheduled tv spot to specifically appologies and explain his position. Maybe you didn't see it you know, your head being so far up your own rectum and all

You have to be kidding me right? So let me get this one straight, there is nothing wrong with comparing conservatives to members of one of the organizations which murdered innocent people, burned down the churches, used force and intimidation to insure that blacks would be able to vote. And yet at the same time to compare a group which is being implicated left right and center of committing criminal offences, and stealing money to the mafia, not to Italians but to a criminal organization.

I ask you once again, why does the CRTC not move to ban the Sopranos in Canada if it promotes these stereotypes? Why does the minister who is responsible for the CRTC not stand up in the house and take a stand on the matter? Why have the people at HBO not been implicated as members of the KKK for they produce such hate filled propaganda.

But calling people members of the KKK is allright...

If that is the case the Liberal Party is similar to Nazis. (I don't believe that). Oh you want proof.... well both could be said to have committed criminal offences. I mean could the connection not be clearer. Hell that is actually a stronger relationship that the KKK - CPC thing... unless you were going to go from the perspective that both groups have abreviations that are three letters long.

I am at least in part willing to accept Martin's appology. I feel that be only fair if I were to accept the appologies of those in the CPC who made statements such as this one. But at the same time I will not accept the lack of responsibility which basically everyone in the Liberal party has taken from the top down, starting with Chretian and Martin and going down to the lowest party member. No accountablility, makes me wonder if they even were able to learn a single thing.