And we think we have problems with Calgary's budget

[CaptainCrunch]

Toronto cuts $26 million dollars in spending and still have a 500 to 800 million dollar spending deficit.

7000 people are probably going to lose their jobs, and most of the free services are going away.

20% tax increase is being bounced around

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ts-debate.html

Calgary and other cities are going to have to start keeping a real eye on budget creep.

But the protestors are being unrealistic, just like the idiot protestors in Greece who want the free rides to continue.

[FlamesAddiction]

The problem with Toronto is is attracts a lot of people who want or need cheap services. The wealthier people stay in the suburbs. Cutting the services is a start, but I doubt the floodgates will close and the people who want the service will continue to crowd the city (and thus vote for the people who will give them).

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

I think that Ford tends to be a bit of a goof at times but a 500-800 million dollar deficit is huge for a city and there is something that is going to need to get cut bigtime.

Does anyone know how much revenue the city of Toronto brings in in the average year?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Agent86

I think that Ford tends to be a bit of a goof at times but a 500-800 million dollar deficit is huge for a city and there is something that is going to need to get cut bigtime.

Does anyone know how much revenue the city of Toronto brings in in the average year?

Looks like ~9.2B
http://flobberworm.com/jennoyim/2011...expenses-2010/

They have talked for awhile about selling the Zoo, no real issue there as long as private money keeps it up...and discussion is under way on whether to close public libraries as well. That would cause the biggest issues, a lot of people use the computers and resources.

[VladtheImpaler]

Ah, good thing my move to Toronto probably won't happen - the double property transfer tax was bad enough - it looks like a lot more fiscal pain is on the way.

[Bleeding Red]

It is really a twofold problem - there is no real definition of "services" and no one (especially the union workers) wants to discuss alternatives or bold ideas.

Garbage collection is an essential city service, but it could be contracted out at a substantial savings.

Firefighters and paramedics are an essential city service, but their departments could be combined at a substantial savings. (As I understand it right now the fire department is the first responder to ANY emergency and then the paramedics show up. combining the departments means that the best trained people show up at emergencies that suit them, no more pumper trucks to help with heart attack victims.)

Libraries are a city service, but they are not essential - there is no mandate that there be 1 library for every 15,00o citizens. Instead of outright closing, why not consider different/shorter hours. A library does not need to be open from 9 am to 1 pm on a Tuesday for two patrons and four staff.

The city of Toronto runs three zoos - one of which I had never heard of until all the whining started, and I have been living here for 25 years now.
Surely if a small community wants to keep their zoo they can run with volunteers and donations. Imagine the City of Calgary fully funding a small petting zoo in Oakatoks. In this case, Mayor Ford is right, the city should not be in the zoo business.

The city also owns 3-5 theaters. In a city with 6 Broadway level theaters, why is the municipal government in the theater business? especially if they cannot make money at it.

For most of these community special interest groups without these "essential services" - publicly owned zoos, theaters, and art galleries, having libraries open 24hrs, 6-figure grants to revenue generating festivals, $7 a day daycare, - their city will become a wasteland.

Everybody wants it so long as someone else is paying for it.

[burn_this_city]

$7 daycare? I thought this was Montreal for a sec. That article was funny, professional mom/artist protesting the destruction of the fabric of their society.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Looks like ~9.2B
http://flobberworm.com/jennoyim/2011...expenses-2010/

They have talked for awhile about selling the Zoo, no real issue there as long as private money keeps it up...and discussion is under way on whether to close public libraries as well. That would cause the biggest issues, a lot of people use the computers and resources.

I can understand not cutting public libraries because there is a benefit to them in terms of culture and education but instead of outright closing them - look into more effective hours of operation as well as which libraries are being utilized and which are not and make selective closures based on that information.

After that start looking at ways to reduce financial costs - just look at the city of calgary for instance - I would have no problem if they scaled back the garbage and recycle pickup to once every two weeks, the bins that they have are huge and I would imagine that 90% of the time they are half empty, especially if people are using the recycle/blue bins. I have never had any problem with smells after one week and for the times that I have forgotten to put the garbage out I didn't have any smells that I noticed either. It may sound drastic but when you are looking at a deficit of almost 10% of revenue - drastic changes need to be made.

[ThisYear]

I wonder how much affect Detroit and the US has on the Toronto budget with their free services.

[burn_this_city]

Detroit is 4ish hours away, freeloaders typically don't travel far.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Detroit is 4ish hours away, freeloaders typically don't travel far.

Well, that depends on the freeloader methinks.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The problem with Toronto is is attracts a lot of people who want or need cheap services. The wealthier people stay in the suburbs. Cutting the services is a start, but I doubt the floodgates will close and the people who want the service will continue to crowd the city (and thus vote for the people who will give them).

This happened to a lot of US cities, their tax base flees to a suburb which is actually another town yet still use the infrastructure that the city has to maintain.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by nik-

This happened to a lot of US cities, their tax base flees to a suburb which is actually another town yet still use the infrastructure that the city has to maintain.

Hmm, interesting problem. How would you go around this though? Toll roads into Toronto? Maybe they can issue cards to people who have Toronto addresses, and anyone who doesn't have one has to pay for services. Sounds fair to me IMO.

[chemgear]

I believe the term they sometimes use in the US is "white flight"; apparently there is also now "black flight."

Rather interesting, I hadn't heard of the term until this year actually.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_flight

[Azure]

The Chinook Arch Library System in southern Alberta was top-notch, and they ran some seriously reduced hours to keep their budget in check.

Sunday/Monday it was closed, it was only opening from 7PM-9PM twice a week, and they closed at 5 the rest of the time, and opened at 9 or 10 in the morning IIRC. Saturday they were only open for a few hours too.

I spent a lot of time there during high school, and I never once had a problem with the hours. So I'd imagine the city of Toronto could do the same.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by nik-

This happened to a lot of US cities, their tax base flees to a suburb which is actually another town yet still use the infrastructure that the city has to maintain.

It's one of the reasons Mississauga has resisted amalgamating into Toronto. People that live there brag about how well their city is ran, but they leach an awful lot from Toronto.