Jason Kenny has it out with Amnesty International

[HOZ]

Since it`s inception Amnesty International has been known to be fighting the good fight for the defenseless since 1961.

For a while now AI has been criticized by the like of Alan Dershowitz (here, and here for examples) for its Anti-Western bias, especially towards Israel and the US.

During the year, Amnesty issued 48 publications critical of Israel, compared to 35 for Iran, 2 for Saudi Arabia, and only 7 for Syria. Many of the attacks directed at Israel took place during the war with Hezbolla, but this terror group and state-within-a-state also got relatively little attention from Amnesty.

"Guantanamo has become the gulag of our time," Amnesty Secretary General Irene Khan said as the London-based group launched its annual report. Amnesty International called for the camp to be closed.

Now they are firing at Canada for deporting of war criminals and human rights violators. AI wrote an open letter to the Government detailing their concerns.

Immigration Jason Kenny, fires back with an open letter of his own. NICE!

I must confess that my first reaction upon reading your open letter to Minister Toews and myself was one of surprise and joy. For your organization to muster its formidable powers of suasion against the orderly and innoxious proceedings of the Canadian immigration system must mean that the world’s most truculent regimes have discharged their last political prisoners and advocates of democracy are free to march in the streets of Tehran and Pyongyang. I have since learned this is not the case, leaving me puzzled as to why Amnesty International (AI) would waste its time and resources opposing the legal deportation of war criminals and serious human rights violators from Canada.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I like how you shortened Amnesty to Amnest.

It saved you one character.

[Envitro]

I like it, good on them for the nice retort.

[Muta]

Awesome rebuttal by Kenney. Wow.

[MarchHare]

I'm not familiar with the specific issue Amnesty criticized The Harper Government (TM) over, so I can't comment on that one way or the other.

I can say that that was a pretty fallacious and juvenile comment from Kenney, though. Because there are worse human rights abusers around the world, Amnesty can't criticize Canada (or the US or Israel)? That's just horrible logic. If anything, Western democracies should be held to a higher standard with respect to human rights compared to despotic regimes.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not familiar with the specific issue Amnesty criticized The Harper Government (TM) over, so I can't comment on that one way or the other.

I can say that that was a pretty fallacious and juvenile comment from Kenney, though. Because there are worse human rights abusers around the world, Amnesty can't criticize Canada (or the US or Israel)? That's just horrible logic. If anything, Western democracies should be held to a higher standard with respect to human rights compared to despotic regimes.

Read the whole statement.
Kenny does a pretty darn good job of explaining exactly how Canada is living up to that higher standard.

He isn't saying AI shouldn't criticize Canada becasue there are worse violators in the world, he's saying that their criticism is completely uninformed, contradictory, and ultimately unfounded.

[CaptainCrunch]

For the most part these people are not only compliant for some serious crimes against their fellow citizens, but were involved in major human right abuses.

The other thing that I've seen so far is that most of them are in this country illegally, with a bunch of them dodging deportation orders.

The fact that Amnesty International is siding with thugs and criminals that shouldn't be here is distasteful. Especially with the stuff thats happening in Syria, Iran and Egypt, but AI lost their balls a long time ago and prefer to attack governments and groups that aren't going to fight back.

Good for Kenney for questioning the hypocrisy of AI in this case, AI should be helping the government identify these thugs so they can face justice, not siding with them.

I remember writing letters for AI when I was in high school, and I thought it was a noble cause, fighting evil and all that, now they're siding with evil.

Its pretty sad.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Read the whole statement.
Kenny does a pretty darn good job of explaining exactly how Canada is living up to that higher standard.

He isn't saying AI shouldn't criticize Canada becasue there are worse violators in the world, he's saying that their criticism is completely uninformed, contradictory, and ultimately unfounded.

After reading the rest of Kenney's letter, I largely agree with his points. That said, my original comment stands; his letter would be much more effective if he didn't include the passage quoted in the OP. What he thought was a clever cheap shot regarding Iran and North Korea was in actuality a red herring fallacy.

[Slava]

So now AI is talking about what Canada does in practice? We're talking about practice? C'mon man we're not talkin about a game here we're talking about practice. I know were supposed to lead by example....I know that and I'm not....I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know its important, I do. I honestly do...but we're talking about practice.

[mykalberta]

Wow, how awesome is that. Lose a little (lot) of weight and JK could run for the Cons Leadership one day.

This is the best part of his retort and one which I see alot from these types of groups.

I am disappointed to learn you are now squandering the moral authority accrued in those campaigns on targeting one of the most generous immigration systems in the world, and protesting the actions of Canadian public servants applying rules and laws that far exceed our international obligations.

Its funny what happens when someone who has the knowledge and ability responds and puts these spoiled brats in their place.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Slava

So now AI is talking about what Canada does in practice? We're talking about practice? C'mon man we're not talkin about a game here we're talking about practice. I know were supposed to lead by example....I know that and I'm not....I'm not shoving it aside, you know, like it don't mean anything. I know its important, I do. I honestly do...but we're talking about practice.

No, a proof is a proof. What kind of a proof? It's a proof. A proof is a proof, and when you have a good proof, it's because it's proven.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

After reading the rest of Kenney's letter, I largely agree with his points. That said, my original comment stands; his letter would be much more effective if he didn't include the passage quoted in the OP. What he thought was a clever cheap shot regarding Iran and North Korea was in actuality a red herring fallacy.

I disagree completely, he's using sarcasm/satire to make his point that it is rediculous that an organization that supposedly exists to oppose the types of real human rights abuses that are going on in the countries mentioned, is instead makig a huff about a country with a fantastic human rights record, meeting it's obligations both domestically and internationally to deal appopriately with exactly the kind of people Amnesty International should be rallying against.

There's a big difference between honestly saying "Leave us alone, there are worse guys out there" and sarcastically saying "Surely the world must be in great shape if Amnesty International is doing something as contrary to their entire purpose as this".

But hey, the art of satire/sarcasm is clearly lost on some people.
Also, good use of hipster debating.

[Thor]

You stupid Canadians, glad I moved away from that hell hole of a country. AI thank you for informing me of this horrific human tragedy unfolding at the so called "Land of the Free."

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Thor

You stupid Canadians, glad I moved away from that hell hole of a country. AI thank you for informing me of this horrific human tragedy unfolding at the so called "Land of the Free."

Maybe you just moved before we deported you?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm not familiar with the specific issue Amnesty criticized The Harper Government (TM) over, so I can't comment on that one way or the other.

I can say that that was a pretty fallacious and juvenile comment from Kenney, though. Because there are worse human rights abusers around the world, Amnesty can't criticize Canada (or the US or Israel)? That's just horrible logic. If anything, Western democracies should be held to a higher standard with respect to human rights compared to despotic regimes.

I like that the first response was to bash someone in the conservative government.

It is great that Kenney sent out this letter. It represents Canada well in the International community.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

For the most part these people are not only compliant for some serious crimes against their fellow citizens, but were involved in major human right abuses.

The other thing that I've seen so far is that most of them are in this country illegally, with a bunch of them dodging deportation orders.

The fact that Amnesty International is siding with thugs and criminals that shouldn't be here is distasteful. Especially with the stuff thats happening in Syria, Iran and Egypt, but AI lost their balls a long time ago and prefer to attack governments and groups that aren't going to fight back.

Good for Kenney for questioning the hypocrisy of AI in this case, AI should be helping the government identify these thugs so they can face justice, not siding with them.

I remember writing letters for AI when I was in high school, and I thought it was a noble cause, fighting evil and all that, now they're siding with evil.

Its pretty sad.

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Wow, how awesome is that. Lose a little (lot) of weight and JK could run for the Cons Leadership one day.

This is the best part of his retort and one which I see alot from these types of groups.



Its funny what happens when someone who has the knowledge and ability responds and puts these spoiled brats in their place.

The world still needs AI or a new organization that does what AI (use to) suppose to do. Fight for the defenseless. Like you Captain I used to write letters to people imprisoned by governments without trial.

I honestly think there is an internal struggle within AI between the Hard-left activists (aka communists by another name) hoping to use the organization to vilify the west (mostly Israel) and the people still trying to do the job that AI was originally set up to do. I wonder if it is a losing battle, like the one Greenpeace lost years ago?

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by HOZ

I honestly think there is an internal struggle within AI between the Hard-left activists (aka communists by another name) hoping to use the organization to vilify the west (mostly Israel) and the people still trying to do the job that AI was originally set up to do. I wonder if it is a losing battle, like the one Greenpeace lost years ago?

The fellow-travellers had to go somewhere after 1991...

[VO #23]

As you know, every one of these men is entitled to a pre-removal risk assessment (PRRA), which ensures that Canada complies with its existing treaty obligations and does not refoule even the worst of offenders to face “torture, extrajudicial execution or enforced disappearance.”

Obviously the Honourable Minister hasn't read the Suresh decision. In fact, as far as I can tell, he has not provided responsive reasons for the deportations, which flies in the face of the established procedural fairness framework built into our common law since Suresh.

Regardless, I do think Canada has a duty to ensure these suspected war criminals are brought to justice. And sending them out on the first plane home and washing our hands of the problem isn't how you do it. There are other procedures (extradition, use of international courts, etc) that could be used to deal with this issue, and our government refuses to employ any of them or even entertain the thought of doing so.

[MarchHare]

I like that the first response was to bash someone in the conservative government.

Where did I do that? My first response was that I wasn't familiar enough with this specific issue, so I wasn't going to take a position either way.

After reading more about it, I agree with many of Kenney's points, but I feel his letter would be stronger if he had adopted a more professional tone throughout it instead of starting off with a juvenile, fallacious argument.

[Olao32]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I can say that that was a pretty fallacious and juvenile comment from Kenney, though. Because there are worse human rights abusers around the world, Amnesty can't criticize Canada (or the US or Israel)? That's just horrible logic. If anything, Western democracies should be held to a higher standard with respect to human rights compared to despotic regimes.

Exactly.
In fact, let’s take it one step further within Canada. Ignore the murders and rapists; let’s go after the J-walkers! I think I saw a grandmother cut across 6th Ave during rush-hour the other day. Electric chair!