Thirtysomething to Thirtynothing

[Cowperson]

A discussion of life in this interesting article in the Globe and Mail on the weekend.

Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University, explored the root of this conflict in her new book, Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled - and More Miserable Than Ever Before.

In it, she uses three decades of psychological surveys to compare the assets, personalities and priorities of the baby boom generation when they were in their late 20s with those of a group she calls "Generation Me," men and women born in the 1970s and early 1980s.

The latter group, she found, have higher self-esteem, assertiveness and narcissistic tendencies, but also report higher anxiety levels and are more likely to suffer depression.

Ms. Twenge, who is 35 and considers herself part of Generation Me, understands this profile, saying people her age were encouraged to be individuals without thinking about where it may lead them.

"We grew up in a world where we could take it for granted that the self came first," she said. "The downside is that a lot of people spend their 20s doing things they think will make them happy, but end up lonely and depressed."

And

A Pew Research Center poll released in January showed that 81 per cent of 25-year-olds in the United States said getting rich is their generation's most important life goal. Fifty-one per cent said the same thing about getting famous.

While researching her play, Ms. Duncan was told by several straight-faced subjects that they had expected to be a movie star or millionaire by age 30. Others seemed genuinely upset they had not become legends by their late 20s.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...portsBaseball/

If you are 20 and under, do you expect to be a rock star and marry a famous celebrity before you are 30, the same expectations your parents used to have?

If you are nearing 30 or a little beyond right now, are you surprised you're not a rock star yet and you haven't married a famous celebrity?

What happened to your life?

What will happen to your life?

And remember, if Jerry Rubin, a member of the Chicago 7 protest group who once famously opined, "Never trust anyone over 30," hadn't been killed by a taxi cab, he'd be 69 this year.

Cowperson

[Cowboy89]

This only makes too much sense. My generation will be the end of civilization. I've met too many people my age that need to be reminded that all they are is 1 of 6 Billion people on Earth and nothing more.

[llama64]

Interesting.

Could also be related to the movement of people out of rural centers and into urban ones. Sense of community usually takes a hit with such a move.

[worth]

have people really changed that much over the past while? maybe these people are more self confident, but i don't think much has changed. I mean, it seems as though we're believeing that everything was hunky dory before hand, and now all of a sudden people are only interested in themselves.

I think it's pretty much been that way throughout human history. The only thing that has changed is the perception of success or wealth. land and control to money and cars. Maybe previously people wanted wealth but knew they couldn't attain it. Now, most people have a chance at becoming wealthy, even if it is by winning the lottery.

[SeeGeeWhy]

Nice read, thanks Cow.

[JohnnyB]

Interesting read. I must admit that what she describes has an ring of truth about it to me, as a member of "Generation Me". North America's culture places a really strong value on acquiring independence and separation from others, which I personally feel is a little empty.

[REDVAN]

I am a twenty something male so I find this study very interesting.

Yes, I do want to be rich, but no I do not want to be a movie star. Be famous? It'd be nice but not something I will become depressed as a result of not obtaining...

Good find!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

A Pew Research Center poll released in January showed that 81 per cent of 25-year-olds in the United States said getting rich is their generation's most important life goal. Fifty-one per cent said the same thing about getting famous.

Okay, I can understand the "get rich" part, but why do so many people think it's important to be famous? If you are an actor or a musician then sure. If it's an athlete then sorry, but if you are 25 and still not famous, that ship has sailed. But why the regular people (that make up 99.9% of the rest of us)?

Really, the only way a regular person becomes famous is if they are either the perpetrator or victim of some spectacular crime.

And I assume most people know the difference between infamous (Joey Buttafuoco) and famous (Al Pacino). Don't they? Or is it infamy that they are interested in.

Sure there are a few special cases like Paris Hilton and Kato Kaelin, but I really hope half the 25 year olds out there aren't really pining for that kind of "fame", or expecting to one day find themselves in a Hollywood blockbuster if it's real fame they are after.

[fredr123]

I'm not sure how I feel about the course my life has taken. I'm halfway between 20 and 30 so maybe it's about time for some quiet reflection, anyway.

What does bug me, though, is something that happens at pretty much every pro sports draft. I realize I never had the talent to make it in the NHL or the NBA but every year the draftees get younger and younger.

You can hear the sound of doors of opportunity slamming shut with each flip of the calendar page. True, there is plenty of time for other of life's pursuits but it's undeniable that certain options are no longer available to me.

I don't feel like I am entitled to fame and big things of riches but there is part of me that pines for the kind of freedom that only financial independence can bring. It's the same part of me that's a little bit jealous of the kids who went to school and had their parents picking up the tab; those fellow classmates that didn't have part-time jobs to make ends meet but still had fancy cars and partied most weekends.

I look forward to the day that I can afford the things that would seem to make a person happy. At some point, I may get there but the choices I have made along the way will no doubt delay all that. I gave up partying on the weekends for the sake of my post-secondary education. I got married rather than participating in the stuff Penthouse Letters are made of. I gave up rapid career progression for a few extra hours a night (and many more weekends) with my family.

They were all good choices, I think, but that small fraction of my sould that almost regrets some of those same choices is evidence to me that Generation Me is here.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by worth

have people really changed that much over the past while? maybe these people are more self confident, but i don't think much has changed. I mean, it seems as though we're believeing that everything was hunky dory before hand, and now all of a sudden people are only interested in themselves.

I think it's pretty much been that way throughout human history.

We're cetainly the same species we've been throughout history, but I don't think you can deny that cultural differences occur from region to region as well as time to time. Those cultural differences are the relevant ones, and they are real.

I don't think Generation Me would have 'higher self-esteem, assertiveness and narcissistic tendencies, but also report higher anxiety levels and are more likely to suffer depression' without the current cultural situation of North America. These things seems to fit very well with a culture in which personal freedom and independence is valued over commitment to the community, and where there is an enormous and growing gap between the middle class, lower class and the rarefied upper class. There is an enormous amount of media attention given to icons in pop culture, sports, business etc. and the belief is promoted that in America (and by virtue of this Canada as well) anybody can make it to the top.

[Sylvanfan]

People in this age group have really grown up in an era of technology and media that exploded during their formative years. I read a book a few years back called "Chips and Pop" (micro chips and pop culture two things that this generation got a huge dose of during their upbringing) which was about this particular generation where they fit in, and what the tendencies of the group as a whole was. It was a pretty interesting book for sure.

I'm not surprised that I didn't marry famous or anything like that. I'm surprised I ever got married prior to the age of 30. Today is my third wedding anniversarry and to a certain extent a time to sit back and reflect a bit. Without question I went through more change from the ages of 25 to 30 than I ever would have anticipated. My goals today are very different than they were when I was 20 to be certain.

[HelloHockeyFans]

One outrageous expectation I find from upcoming university grads is that once they graduate, they'll have an awesome 70K/year job right away. I've gotten to know a few recruiters on a more personal level and they've all told me that many new, fresh graduates out of university, when asked what the minimum salary they would take is, answer with 60K... sadly, most of these people end up waiting for that job that will never come, until they adjust their expectations to something a little more realistic, which to them, when it happens, is quite shocking.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

One outrageous expectation I find from upcoming university grads is that once they graduate, they'll have an awesome 70K/year job right away. I've gotten to know a few recruiters on a more personal level and they've all told me that many new, fresh graduates out of university, when asked what the minimum salary they would take is, answer with 60K... sadly, most of these people end up waiting for that job that will never come, until they adjust their expectations to something a little more realistic, which to them, when it happens, is quite shocking.

.

In Calgary a 60K out of school figure isn't all that far off. It's not that unusual to hear of Engineering, Geology, and Business grads to start at that here.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

.

In Calgary a 60K out of school figure isn't all that far off. It's not that unusual to hear of Engineering, Geology, and Business grads to start at that here.

Too bad if you're an arts student though. Might as well just be happy you had four years of partying and accept that you've basically not progressed beyond a high school diploma in terms of job prospects.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Too bad if you're an arts student though. Might as well just be happy you had four years of partying and accept that you've basically not progressed beyond a high school diploma in terms of job prospects.

For sure.

I'd elaborate, but my break is over and I have to finish cleaning the deep fryer.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Too bad if you're an arts student though. Might as well just be happy you had four years of partying and accept that you've basically not progressed beyond a high school diploma in terms of job prospects.

If someone is an Arts student and they thought'd they'd be coming out of Uni with a 60-70k job there's probably more wrong than just a generational sense of entitlement... they obviously weren't looking around or listening much. I came out with History & Poli Sci degrees and I knew I was going to be lucky to get a job, let alone anything that paid over 40k to start.

Lots of Eng, Business majors, Law, etc. students (especially those who do well) can make 50-60k to start... or more.

As far as I'm concerned this is the same debate that will happen every generation. The world changes, people change with it. One day when we're Cowperson's age (hopefully not for a few decades yet) we'll be looking at all the 'young'uns' talking about how things and people are 'different' now than they used to be, as though there's some static social arrangement that can be identified and monitored throughout the ages, or that there's some sort of value in attempting to keep this arrangment arrested and 'the same'. You think people born in 1900 were looking at people born in 1950 and saying 'yep, chip off the ol' block there'... hell, if you were born in 1900 then a kid having a car when he's 16 in 1950 probably blows your freaking mind!

This type of generational shift is inevitble, it'll happen every time a bunch of people get old and a bunch of new people are born.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

As far as I'm concerned this is the same debate that will happen every generation. The world changes, people change with it. One day when we're Cowperson's age (hopefully not for a few decades yet) we'll be looking at all the 'young'uns' talking about how things and people are 'different' now than they used to be, as though there's some static social arrangement that can be identified and monitored throughout the ages, or that there's some sort of value in attempting to keep this arrangment arrested and 'the same'. You think people born in 1900 were looking at people born in 1950 and saying 'yep, chip off the ol' block there'... hell, if you were born in 1900 then a kid having a car when he's 16 in 1950 probably blows your freaking mind!

This type of generational shift is inevitble, it'll happen every time a bunch of people get old and a bunch of new people are born.

I don't think generational shift is the issue here though. I don't think anybody is denying generational shift. I think the interesting thing is the specific characteristics of this generation and why this generation has those characteristics.

[llama64]

Maybe our parents were too supportive of us. One too many "you're special!" or perhaps a few errant "you deserve to get it all boy!" coloured our perspective on reality. Plus, parents are ultra sensitive about public criticism of their kids. Try stopping a rampaging toddler in a public restaurant some time to see what I mean.

I know parents these days are really uptight about discipline, to the point where they try to adjust the environment to a kid rather then teaching the kid to adjust to their environment. Seems a little narcissistic to me.

[LouCypher]

In contrast I see this as pointing to a trend in how people view the world and as more information has become readily available to a wider range of people humanity and the younger generations cant help but have to think about more than just themselves. Approaching 30 myself I see not so much as a particular generation being more out for themselves just more recognition of the fact that this type of lifestyle is evolving as the norm will have to be people taking a wider view of the world and how they can coexist within it before there isnt one left.

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I don't think generational shift is the issue here though. I don't think anybody is denying generational shift. I think the interesting thing is the specific characteristics of this generation and why this generation has those characteristics.

I wouldn't be surprised to find these characteristic changes to be similar across generations. Do you think the next generation will be harder working, have a lesser sense of entitlement, or be less narcissistic than this one?

The thing to put into perspective is that its presented as though the baby-boomers are the 'base line' for normal behaviour (or at least, 'base behaviour') from which 'new behaviour' is being measured. They were probably as equally independent, self-entitled, and narcissistic compared to their elders as we are compared to them.