Montreal Police get wreckless (2 dead)

[Yasa]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...-shooting.html

Originally Posted by CBC

A second man has died from his injuries after shots were fired by police early Tuesday morning in Montreal's downtown core, near the corner of St-Denis and Ste-Catherine streets.
The 36-year-old was on his way to work at the Saint-Luc Hospital and was hit by a stray bullet.
Police were firing on a 40-year-old man who was seen wielding a knife. He died earlier on Tuesday.

It's just too bad tasers are too dangerous to use. I suppose this could go into the police brutality thread, but I decided against it.

[dissentowner]

I smell a big lawsuit here. Doesn't sound like proper police procedure to me. Sounds like the knife wielder ran and as they were chasing him they were shooting at him. Totally against proper procedure and killing an innocent man is tragic!

[billybob123]

Forget the lawsuit.

If you shoot someone hunting because you don't take into account the background of your target, your arse is going to jail for criminal negligence causing death. What are the odds the cop in this situation gets something similar?

[Gozer]

nm

[alan21]

The cop is still one away from a killstreak unless he equipped hardline.

Shouldn't this be in the police brutality thread?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Shouldn't this be in the police brutality thread?

Not really. This is a big enough story to stand on it's own. Plus, lots of people probably ignore the police brutality thread because it's become MikeytheRedneck's personal platform.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by alan21

The cop is still one away from a killstreak unless he equipped hardline.

I would have thanked this if the subject was not so sad.

[YYC in LAX]

Originally Posted by alan21

The cop is still one away from a killstreak unless he equipped hardline.

I'm embarrassed to say I really enjoyed that.

[YYC in LAX]

601 views and 8 replies. Ha, no one gives a #### about Quebec.

I was being sarcastic in my last post.

Again, the reason one shouldn't judge the actions of police until the full story is out:

A bullet ricocheted across the street and struck Limoges, 36, in the head. He died later in hospital, sparking a heated debate about police training and use of lethal force on busy downtown streets.

http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/06/09...eal-mans-death

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I was being sarcastic in my last post.

Again, the reason one shouldn't judge the actions of police until the full story is out:



http://www.calgarysun.com/2011/06/09...eal-mans-death

That does not excuse them at all. There was no need to be firing at a guy running away with a knife.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

That does not excuse them at all. There was no need to be firing at a guy running away with a knife.

Really?

Tell me your background in police training and the use of force.

Also, other than what you've read in the papers, what do you know about the situation?

I'm guessing not much on either account but you've passed judgment based on ??.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Really?

Tell me your background in police training and the use of force.

Also, other than what you've read in the papers, what do you know about the situation?

I'm guessing not much on either account but you've passed judgment based on ??.

Actually I do have law enforcement training so your guess is wrong. It was what I went to school for until a bad car accident in 1999 made it impossible for me to make a career of it. Your last resort is to fire your weapon on someone. Unless the man with the knife was seriously putting someones life in jeopardy at that moment then they were in the wrong. Running away from the police armed with a knife does not fit that definition. You are also certainly not supposed to fire your weapon where innocent people can be killed or hurt unless you have no other choice.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Actually I do have law enforcement training so your guess is wrong. It was what I went to school for until a bad car accident in 1999 made it impossible for me to make a career of it. Your last resort is to fire your weapon on someone. Unless the man with the knife was seriously putting someones life in jeopardy at that moment then they were in the wrong. Running away from the police armed with a knife does not fit that definition. You are also certainly not supposed to fire your weapon where innocent people can be killed or hurt unless you have no other choice.

So you took a few years of criminology?

Tell me what then, is a general use of force policy?

You make a large assumption that this guy wasn't putting lives in danger when shot. I assume you are basing that on the media's report that the police were pursuing him (I guess you then decide that means he was running scared and trying to get away and was thus not a threat??).

So they are chasing a guy. He turns and faces them with knife. Is that a lethal force encounter?

It has already been reported that he had threaten people with the knife. So he's running through the streets threatening people with a knife. Is that a lethal force encounter? Tell me, at what point does the encounter become lethal force. But be careful, it is downtown Montreal, there are other people around and a round "might" bounce in some freak physics accident and strike an innocent.

So do you shoot the guy and risk a round bouncing? Or do you not shoot the guy and either you or some innocent takes a blade in the throat?

And keep in mind, you get to think it through in your cozy little house in front of your nice little computer screen. I am sure someone with your obvious training could make the right decision.

[mikey_the_redneck]

I wonder why a tazer was not used as this seems like exactly the type of situation to use them for, or a non-lethal fire arm that riot police use......but instead we got some poor guy who gets a stray bullet to the head.
Just sad....

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

So you took a few years of criminology?

Tell me what then, is a general use of force policy?

You make a large assumption that this guy wasn't putting lives in danger when shot. I assume you are basing that on the media's report that the police were pursuing him (I guess you then decide that means he was running scared and trying to get away and was thus not a threat??).

So they are chasing a guy. He turns and faces them with knife. Is that a lethal force encounter?

It has already been reported that he had threaten people with the knife. So he's running through the streets threatening people with a knife. Is that a lethal force encounter? Tell me, at what point does the encounter become lethal force. But be careful, it is downtown Montreal, there are other people around and a round "might" bounce in some freak physics accident and strike an innocent.

So do you shoot the guy and risk a round bouncing? Or do you not shoot the guy and either you or some innocent takes a blade in the throat?

And keep in mind, you get to think it through in your cozy little house in front of your nice little computer screen. I am sure someone with your obvious training could make the right decision.

I took two years of Police Foundations at Fanshawe College. I also had half a term in at the Aylmer Police College when I was in my MVC. I guess your point is valid if he was running at people threatening them with the knife however if the reports that he had brandished the knife at officers and then took off and they were in pursuit and fired shots at him then that is against police procedure. I have a hard time believing he was running from police and threatening innocent people with a knife at the same time. I can tell you that if a guy came at me with a knife that I have had hand to hand training in our Use Of Force section and if I had fellow officers with me I would either be one of the officers with a weapon drawn asking the offender to drop the knife and get on the ground or I would be an officer disarming him because to be honest if you know how to do it disarming somebody with a knife isn't that hard. Even if I was going to use my firearm it would only be if the offender was trying to harm me, a citizen, or a fellow officer which does not sound like the case here. Your firearm is your very very last resort!

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by YYC in LAX

601 views and 8 replies. Ha, no one gives a #### about Quebec.

Really? That's your input in a thread with an innocent victim? Classless to say the least.

Hopefully this police officer gets charged with manslaughter and spends some time behind bars.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I wonder why a tazer was not used as this seems like exactly the type of situation to use them for, or a non-lethal fire arm that riot police use......but instead we got some poor guy who gets a stray bullet to the head.
Just sad....

Probably because many officers do not carry tasers or riot guns. If they did have access to a taser then that will make it even worse for them.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Probably because many officers do not carry tasers or riot guns. If they did have access to a taser then that will make it even worse for them.

In my experience with Montreal police they mostly have pepper spray and handguns. Tasers aren't really common back east as I am sure you are aware.