Hockey Prospectus on Flames Top-10 Prospects - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Metro Gnome · 07-12-2011, 08:00 AM

Corey Pronman ranks the Flames top-10 prospects here.

He includes Bartschi, Breen, Nemisz and the recently acquired Paul Byron. Critics of Hockey's Future and their efforts in this area should know that Pronman is pretty thorough when it comes to prospect evaluation. He watches the players as much as possible and keeps detailed notes. He also talks with teams scouts to get their view on the players.

That established, here's how he ranks things:

1. Sven Bartschi, Left Wing
2. T.J. Brodie, Defense
3. Greg Nemisz, Right Wing
4. Max Reinhart, Center
5. Ryan Howse, Left Wing
6. Chris Breen, Defense
7. Paul Byron, Center
8. Mitch Wahl, Center
9. Roman Horak, Center
10. Lance Bouma, Center

kirant · 07-12-2011, 08:46 AM

Interesting mix. He is a little conservative on the high end prospects (Bartschi is notably low IMO), but also gives the lower guys more credit than I'd give.

JiriHrdina · 07-12-2011, 09:24 AM

Yeah that's a very good list compared to what we usually see from other sites. Pretty bang on.

Flames Draft Watcher · 07-12-2011, 09:32 AM

I thought Bouma was a winger?

kirant · 07-12-2011, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I thought Bouma was a winger?

Bouma seems pretty flexible at playing all the forward positions.

sworkhard · 07-12-2011, 12:44 PM

Much better list than most sites. Injuries really derail players on his rankings, which is probably fair as the less they play, the more likely they will fail to reach their potential.

From his evaluation we have a ton of players that could end up being 2nd or 3rd liners, but not a lot of 1st line talent outside of Howse (who has to fix a lot of holes to make it).

I wonder where he would rank Patrick Holland.

Edit: Just emailed him about Patrick Holland and got this back

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory Pronman

He was right outside their top ten, with a good year this season I could see him breaking into their top 10.

flamesrule14 · 07-12-2011, 12:58 PM

Pretty good list. I'd have Irving in the top 10 though. Don't see how he has been passed by Ortio on the depth chart either.

Pierre "Monster" McGuire · 07-12-2011, 02:17 PM

Not a bad list. In fact, his scouting reports on the Heat guys I'd agree 100% with. I'd like to say his projections are a bit low, but I'm just a tainted Flames fan who thinks some our prospects will be better than two-way this and two-way that.

I only had one issue with this list:

RE: Reinhart

Quote:

He's a solid-average distributor

While I admit I really only watched him during the the WHL playoffs, I'd have to say his passing was good. He damn near assisted on every one of Fraser's goals (the leading Ice goal-getter during the playoffs). His passes were dead on accurate and sometimes he amazed me the way he thread passes between sticks and legs.

looooob · 07-13-2011, 04:58 PM

list seems solid, the guy I'm still not sold on is Horak. might have replaced him with someone ala Irving/Ferland/Holland but by that level probably all pretty equal

bubbsy · 07-13-2011, 05:43 PM

good article. Flames nation interviewed him about his rankings here:

http://flamesnation.ca/2011/7/13/fla...-and-interview

This part was very very difficult to read:

Quote:

3.) For interests sake, where would you have ranked Tim Erixon if he was still Flames property?

I have him as a top 15 prospect in the NHL (2011 picks included), so #1 obviously. He's probably the best defensive prospect in the league behind Adam Larsson and maybe Brandon Gormley.

Metro Gnome · 07-13-2011, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

good article. Flames nation interviewed him about his rankings here:

http://flamesnation.ca/2011/7/13/fla...-and-interview

This part was very very difficult to read:

Yeah. Part of me didn't want to ask Corey that question, but part of me was morbidly curious.

Beerfest · 07-13-2011, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I thought Bouma was a winger?

He's been listed as a center wherever I see him.

Vulcan · 07-13-2011, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamesrule14

Pretty good list. I'd have Irving in the top 10 though. Don't see how he has been passed by Ortio on the depth chart either.

Agree, Ortio hasn't proven anything yet and Irving is still on track for goalie expectations to move on to the NHL. This is another big year for Irving as it's his last year of being protected from waivers. Even so, unless he has a great year, there shouldn't be a problem in sending him down again in a years time. If he does have a great year, than we have a nice problem of trading one of our goalies or protecting all three. This is the kind of problem San Jose had when we picked up Kiprusoff and coincidentally Kipper's NMC runs out after this season.

Will Irving and or Karlsson do enough that we can move Kipper and will Kipper rebound enough that we would be fools to let him go?

Ideally I'd like to see Irving get in a few games with the big team this season. It will help his growth and we will get a better handle of how NHL ready he is.

HighLifeMan · 07-13-2011, 11:34 PM

The one thing that stuck out to me in this article was that he believed Paul Byron will only make the NHL in an offensive role which I believe is completely wrong.

He is a tenacious energy player that can provide offense, He could easily be a 3/4th line player if his offense does not translate well at an NHL level IMO as he is not afraid to get into those dirty areas despite his size.

Think of a Ryan Shannon type player as his low projection.

Calgary4LIfe · 07-14-2011, 12:46 AM

I didn't quite agree Ortio passing Irving. I think this season will play that out, but it is being a bit presumptuous at this point to infer that without Ortio playing a chunk of games in the AHL.

I HOPE that is the case - not because I don't like Leland - but because it would mean that Ortio is a stud in goal. I thought Leland rebounded quite nicely last season, and seems to be NHL material - so if Ortio passes him, that would be 'great news' for the Flames.

bubbsy · 07-14-2011, 05:18 AM

disappointing to see the flames ranked 27th organizationally.

flamesaresmokin · 07-14-2011, 08:34 AM

I fail to see how Irving has apparently been passed on the depth charts by Ortio? Guess his great season last year equates to falling behind a rookie AHL goalie this season somehow.

VladtheImpaler · 07-14-2011, 08:41 AM

It all seems pretty reasonable, but I, along with some others, obviously, am curious about:

Between the pipes, first round pick Leland Irving hasn't developed as planned and has been passed on the depth charts by Joni Ortio.

Is this based on talking to people in the Flames org? Just curious what other reason he would have to say that? Not that I think Irving is the second coming, but seems premature...

Metro Gnome · 07-14-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

It all seems pretty reasonable, but I, along with some others, obviously, am curious about:

Between the pipes, first round pick Leland Irving hasn't developed as planned and has been passed on the depth charts by Joni Ortio.

Is this based on talking to people in the Flames org? Just curious what other reason he would have to say that? Not that I think Irving is the second coming, but seems premature...

Reading between the lines, that's the reason. Personally I think the season coming will determine that as well.

Parallex · 07-14-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flamesaresmokin

Guess his great season last year equates to falling behind a rookie AHL goalie this season somehow.

Irving did not have a "great" season. Kent explains better then I ever could so I'll crib from him...

Quote:

He played 61 games, winning 30 with a save percentage of .913. Oddly, the Flames article says his save rate was the 10th best in the league last year, but the truth is there were 17 better goalies by this metric. Some of them had the same measure, but even if you count them as ties, Irving lands at 13th overall.

While the youngster took a moderate step forward last year, my hopes that Irving will be anything more than a back-up at the NHL level have begun to fade. Seven of the puck stoppers with better save percentages than Irving last season were rookies. Marginal NHL back-ups like Curtis Sanford (.930) and Michael Leighton (.926) were far superior. A .913 SV% in the NHL is mediocre, let alone in the AHL

He played a lot of games so give him credit for endurance. But that alone doesn't make a great season. I wouldn't close the book on him yet but he needs more dramatic improvement this year to stay in the picture.