Security in Calgary Nighclubs

[Crazy Flamer]

As reported earlier by Global 7 news earlier today, Penny Lane Entertainment will be installing "Airport Style" securty features in some of its venues. A stabbing outside Tantra Nightclub this past Tuesday prompted owner Paul Vickers to make some changes as to how he protects his patrons.

So will it work? Will more partygoers be more inclined to visit nighclubs that take extra security measures or will they be turned off by the thought of passing throug a metal detector? Moreoever, will it do anything to cut down on the violent attacks?

[JiriHrdina]

I did not see the report but it seems to me that most of the "nightclub violence" happens outside the bar - not in it. I'm not sure if "airport security" would address the real issue or not.

[Cowboy]

Well one of the worst incidences I have ever seen out side a bar was out side of Cowboys during Stampede. It involved weapons but not the type of weapons that a metal detector would stop. A man picked up one of the massive rocks lining the parking lot south of the club and and smashed it over the face of some guy.

However, I think it is great, but they should do something about the group beatdowns, if they can find some way to do that I think they would be better off. Raising ages to go to bars would be great. Or actually inforce the rules some bars claim they have!!!

[JiriHrdina]

Another point is that lets face it - some of the worst incidents that have happened have involved bar staff. I think bouncers need to be provided good trainin in terms of how to deal with potential violence before it happens - rather just wading in to be a part of it. (this is just a general comment - I know some bouncers do an excellent job).

Bottom line is that any step towards increased safety is a good one - I'm just not sure how much good this specific step will do.

[Crazy Flamer]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Aug 17 2004, 05:34 AM
I did not see the report but it seems to me that most of the "nightclub violence" happens outside the bar - not in it. I'm not sure if "airport security" would address the real issue or not.

This is true, but its usually after someone has been kicked out of the bar, meaning they would have had to get into the bar in teh first place. Its possible that if patrons are carrying weapons they won't even get into the bar in the first place or will simply go somewhere else where they know security measures aren't so high.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Well if it's stabbing or anything like that I'd say it would help prevent incidents.

As most altercations happen in the bar, and take heat outside the bar. If you can't get a weapon into the bar, then you can't use it outside afterwards (in theory) meaning that the fight would still take place, but mano-a-mano, and not mano-a-knifey

(Got to love Canada, we're worried about knifes in street fights, and not guns)

[duncan]

the problem around here is retribution attacks. A partier is turfed from the bar, or has problems with another patron, leaves and comes back at closing with friends and weapons. 2 bouncers have been shot in the street in Toronto in the last couple of years, and several people have been stabbed outside the bars in London this year, all after hours.
What we need are more cops and harsher laws for weapons offences. Oh yeah and STRICTER YOUNG OFFENDER sentences.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

One really easy wat to reduce the After bar violence is to simply let the bars stay open later. Lots of times these things happen rigth at close. Why? because that's what happens when you kick a couple hundred drunk people onto the street at the same time. Some are p*ssed cause they got kicked out. Some are p*ssed casue they didn't hook up, and some are just ***holes.

If you let the bars stay open as late as they wanted you'd hav people wandering out on their own time and it would probably aleviate some of the fights. Just a thought, it won't solve the problem, but I think it would help. Also, it'd be nice to be able to stay out past 2:00 every once in a while.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

the problem around here is retribution attacks. A partier is turfed from the bar, or has problems with another patron, leaves and comes back at closing with friends and weapons. 2 bouncers have been shot in the street in Toronto in the last couple of years, and several people have been stabbed outside the bars in London this year, all after hours.
What we need are more cops and harsher laws for weapons offences. Oh yeah and STRICTER YOUNG OFFENDER sentences.

I don't see how stricter young offender sentences really would do anythign in this situation, in every province in Canada you have to be 18 or 19 years of age or older to enter a bar (not saying it doesn't happen). So if those who are acting in violent ways and attacking others with weapons are all of legal age, how exactly does a stricker YOA help solve anything? It's like the US passing a law saying that all left handed people need to have pink hair. It has no relevance to me.

One really easy wat to reduce the After bar violence is to simply let the bars stay open later. Lots of times these things happen rigth at close. Why? because that's what happens when you kick a couple hundred drunk people onto the street at the same time. Some are p*ssed cause they got kicked out. Some are p*ssed casue they didn't hook up, and some are just ***holes.

If you let the bars stay open as late as they wanted you'd hav people wandering out on their own time and it would probably aleviate some of the fights. Just a thought, it won't solve the problem, but I think it would help. Also, it'd be nice to be able to stay out past 2:00 every once in a while.

You might be on to something. I don't know how the nightclub life works in Calgary, but in an alcoholic province, the bars are open until 2:00 unless they have a cabiret licence, then they're open until 3:30, you head to the local afterhours pizza place, and then stagger home. Meaning you can leave when you want to, but your drinking options are also open much later.

Also of note in Sydney the biggest most popular bar (Smooth Herman's) which is open until 3:30 has 2 or 3 police officers stationed in the front doors of the bar, as well there is always a high number of police cars circulating the area. At 3:30 the lot infront of the bar is half police cars. Not that they're anything going on, but as a presence and deterant. (note that according to employees there there IS a fight there every night of the week)

In Halifax the police presence seems to be high as well (not as high as in Sydney, but it's a bigger place to, and I don't know where they hide) but still there. At close there always seems to be alot of police officers around.

I can honestly say I've never seen any incidents in Halifax (I've heard stories, and franly I'm not downtown that often) and in Sydney I can count them on one hand... infact on a pubcrawl we got one police officer to stop and sign our shirts (so respect is there as well).

More police, and later hours actually are good suggestions, then again I'm also from and living in places MUCH smaller than yours (Sundance has more people than Sydney, and the Halifax Regional Municipality is 1/3 the size of Calgary)

[albertGQ]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Aug 17 2004, 07:30 AM
One really easy wat to reduce the After bar violence is to simply let the bars stay open later. Lots of times these things happen rigth at close. Why? because that's what happens when you kick a couple hundred drunk people onto the street at the same time. Some are p*ssed cause they got kicked out. Some are p*ssed casue they didn't hook up, and some are just ***holes.

If you let the bars stay open as late as they wanted you'd hav people wandering out on their own time and it would probably aleviate some of the fights. Just a thought, it won't solve the problem, but I think it would help. Also, it'd be nice to be able to stay out past 2:00 every once in a while.

Good logic. I never really thought about that. I think this would be a great idea!!!

[Wookie]

Originally posted by Cowboy@Aug 16 2004, 11:34 PM
Well one of the worst incidences I have ever seen out side a bar was out side of Cowboys during Stampede. It involved weapons but not the type of weapons that a metal detector would stop. A man picked up one of the massive rocks lining the parking lot south of the club and and smashed it over the face of some guy.

However, I think it is great, but they should do something about the group beatdowns, if they can find some way to do that I think they would be better off. Raising ages to go to bars would be great. Or actually inforce the rules some bars claim they have!!!

Yeah that was sick.

Really Really sick!!!

[calf]

What about not cramming as many people as possible into the bars? You get so many drunks in a tight space, stuff's going to happen. Give everyone some personal space and tensions might subside.

Or, to blame the city, allow the number of taxi licenses to increase - get more cabs on the streets and you can clear people from outside the bars faster

[Reaper]

Originally posted by calf@Aug 17 2004, 09:42 AM
What about not cramming as many people as possible into the bars? You get so many drunks in a tight space, stuff's going to happen. Give everyone some personal space and tensions might subside.

I'm all for this idea.

The fact that people tend not to respect personal space when drunk combined with the fact that bars routinely break their capacity levels have made it so that I never want to go to nightclubs any more.

When I get crowed, I get agitated.

When people disrespect me, I get more agitated.

When people act like they don't care whether they crowd me or disrespect me it makes me want to twist their heads off like bottle caps.

So, be happy that I don't go to crowded clubs any more or I'm sure that you guys would be reading headlines about me...j/k

[duncan]

Originally posted by Maritime Q-Scout@Aug 17 2004, 03:02 PM

I don't see how stricter young offender sentences really would do anythign in this situation, in every province in Canada you have to be 18 or 19 years of age or older to enter a bar (not saying it doesn't happen). So if those who are acting in violent ways and attacking others with weapons are all of legal age, how exactly does a stricker YOA help solve anything? It's like the US passing a law saying that all left handed people need to have pink hair. It has no relevance to me.

While it is true that the drinking age is 18 or 19, it isn't overly difficult toget fake ID, and if you look the part, you seldom get asked. From the time I turned 16, I was able to get into most bars, and the majority of the problems are the underage to 21 group.
I guess I have a different perspective than most, when I read the paper and see the people doing the stabbing and shooting, I recognize the names, and know they have done it before.

[RedHot25]

Originally posted by Bring_Back_Shantz@Aug 17 2004, 02:30 PM
One really easy wat to reduce the After bar violence is to simply let the bars stay open later. Lots of times these things happen rigth at close. Why? because that's what happens when you kick a couple hundred drunk people onto the street at the same time. Some are p*ssed cause they got kicked out. Some are p*ssed casue they didn't hook up, and some are just ***holes.

If you let the bars stay open as late as they wanted you'd hav people wandering out on their own time and it would probably aleviate some of the fights. Just a thought, it won't solve the problem, but I think it would help. Also, it'd be nice to be able to stay out past 2:00 every once in a while.

Be VERY careful on this one...

Now I know it is Vancouver, but all of the bars there (relatively recently - I think maybe a couple of years) are open a lot later, like you are proposing.

However, it has not had the effect that you have predicted. Instead, trouble has gone up a lot; cops are complaining and are really really wanting the times rolled back.

I think a lot has to do with it with the bars staying open a lot later, it gives people a lot more time to drink, which gives them a lot more time to get "drunker", which gives them...

[Aarons13]

metal detectors might deter a small portion of the population, but then again, if you are at a club, just about anything can be a weapon.... smash a beer bottle, grab a pen etc.... i don't think much can be done about the violence short of more security at the bars, but even then, all this might do is cause more bouncer initiated beatdowns (we've all seen it too... 2 guys fight, the bouncer knocks the crap out of the fighter thats winning)... so yeah.. who knows what will work short of shock collars on everyone that go off if you are overly aggressive... and i think PETA would feel thats inhuman as well!!!!

[Mike__]

I agree with Calf, that is one very good way to stop these fights. More and more people go to clubs with friends and try to be tougher than the next guy, even if it means bringing 6 of thier friends to help them. Noone wants to get beatup so they will resort to weapons to fight back. Sooner or later your going to see more people bringing guns to these fights. Only way I see to stop this is Calfs way and more Security, Cops, Taxi's.

[Cowperson]

Well, I'm completely out of my league in this topic since its a rare year when I might actually enter a bar . . . . .

HOWEVER, on a trip down to LA a few years ago with Bingo and a few other fellows, we found outselves in a bar at Redondo Beach where they scanned our drivers licence at the door.

No drivers licence. No admittance.

And that is my lone contribution to this topic.

Cowperson

[BlackArcher101]

Do what Lethbridge does and have the cops hanging outside the bars. You rarely see a fight outside a bar there, and if there is, it's broken up pretty quick and off you go to the drunk tank.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by BlackArcher101@Aug 17 2004, 08:41 PM
Do what Lethbridge does and have the cops hanging outside the bars. You rarely see a fight outside a bar there, and if there is, it's broken up pretty quick and off you go to the drunk tank.

They must have changed the rules in the 'Bridge because when I lived there I beat the crap out of dozens of people outside many, many bars and they never stopped me.

Well, not quite, but I don't remember a lot of police presence. I was told by a cop once that they only had 4 patrol cars on at a time on some nights, and that's to cover the entire city. They did manage to nab me at least 3 times for drinking in public after the bars closed so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

As to the Calgary thing -- they should actually enforce the fire code limits on people inside the building. We've all been in a bar where you are literally jammed up against people on all sides and it takes half an hour to get a drink. Like someone said above, that just gets annoying (and really hot, which makes it worse). I don't bother going to bars like that because it's not fun and bar owners should pay attention to me -- I guarantee I drink more than Al Cologne, who crowds the place up and mixes too much testosterone with his Smirnoff Ice.