Are Medals THAT Important?

[Trojan97]

As I've been watching the games so far I've been debating with myself (and I never seem to win) are medals the be all end all? or are slight improvements from our athletes acceptable?

For example after watching Mike Brown break his Canadian record in the breaststroke twice in one day,the 4x200 swim team put up a solid 5th and set a new Canadian record also, the Canadian baseball team rolling through their opponents (granted against easy teams), the beach volleyball teams no longer being doormats for other nations etc. are these small steps acceptable for our country or should we be expecting these athletes to medal?

I say take the improvements. With the brutal funding our athletes get there is just no way they can realistically be expected to compete against teams with budgets 4-5 times greater then their own. Seeing Canadians have the performance of a lifetime in the biggest competition of their lifetime given the circumstances should be comended from our country not complained and ridiculed.

Agree/Disagree?

[Jiggy_12]

Sure its nice just to be there, but If I was there, I would want to win. In the world of competitive sports, winning is everything. If it wasnt, not much point of playing your sport.

[octothorp]

It's hard to say. I'd almost rather see a performance like that unheralded Canadian judoist getting all the way to the bronze-medal match, rather than see a favorite like the Men's Eight rowing just kinda skulk their way into a bronze medal. For every Canadian who steps up and suprises, there are are a couple Canadian favorites who fail to perform up to expectations. And I'm disappointed when that happens.

[calf]

I say take the improvements. With the brutal funding our athletes get there is just no way they can realistically be expected to compete against teams with budgets 4-5 times greater then their own. Seeing Canadians have the performance of a lifetime in the biggest competition of their lifetime given the circumstances should be comended from our country not complained and ridiculed.

What a Canadian thing to say! But I agree with you. Medals are nice, but self-improvement and being competitive, even if you don't win, is what the Olympics are about IMO. But octothorp's statement holds true as well.

We all swell with pride when a Canadian does well for him/herself, and are even prouder when the medal is around their neck. At least we're not American where only the winners get the attention.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Interesting conversation.

I was watching a thing on the ancient olympics, and there were a lot of intersting tid bits, most notably the notion that just being there was a great thing didn't exist. At the ancient games winning was everything. If you lost, it wouldn't be too unexpected to have your mother not talk to you. I'm not saying this is the way things should be, but it's an interesting contrast between our own, and the ancient world's values.

[CaptainCrunch]

This whole thing is self defeatist, on a world stage like the Olympics winning is everything, and we should be supremely p*ssed that our government is more willing to waste our money on stupid projects and lining thier buddies pockets as oppossed to preparing our athletes to win.

I've never bought into this whole "Its ok as long as you tried your best stuff" that might play off in the school yard, but not the Olympics.

Its typical of Canada's international reputation, we're only willing to do things half way and we have no killer instinct.

What a joke

A bronze in sync diving, woopie, wait until we mop up at the bridge table.

The only athlete who's attitude I've respected so far is Ricky Say the swimmer who was p*ssed off after the relay because we lost. There was no smiling about the thrilling experience or laughing because you hit your personal best, or celebrating because you got to the final.

We have the facilities and the bloodlines to have some great athletes.

Our younger athletes don't have a Victor Davis (RIP) or Alex Bauman or Donovan Bailey to look up to and strive for. We've got a bunch of mediocre athletes who are hamstrung by a ######ed government, political appointee coaches, and a country who's willing to accept being just ok

Go for the gold or don't go.

[browna]

Let me start by saying this...I am big into sports and have been my whole life, and my wife was some polticial games away from going to Olympic Swimming Trials herself in the late 80s.

Not to defend the government, but lets say this....how many people give two craps about amateur athletics outside of the Olympics?

Enough to pay more taxes to fund athletes? I mean, the argument can be made about other programs etc taking funding.

But do you think any government would gain huge support for an 50% increase in funding for what comes down to basically 5 weeks every 5 years, when those interested Canadians will watch the Olympics?

Some, not all, just see the medal counts and then assume the government is to blame. Some are just dull, some are just looking for a reason to bash the government.

Then rolling out the arguments for countries such as Australia and their funding. Well, most of that funding goes to certain events (swimming), in mainly only one Olympics (Summer).

The COC with their upgraded standards, have done the least expensive thing. It's raised the bar, which is a good first step.

Add to this, as of yesterday Canadian swimmers had 2 personal bests out of 50 or so performances. The rest, couldn't cut it when it came down to it. One of the biggest complainers last time (Malar in swimming) couldn't cut it to even qualify.

Maybe better physc training? Sure, maybe. But thats a little different then physical training and coaching and facilities that a lot of the funding would go to..when the athletes can't perform up to their own personal stanadards, its tough to lay the blame squarly on funding.

Hey, I'd be for upgraded funding...and willing to pay for it through higher taxes. But its a tough sell in this country, when, after the Olympic spolight fades, so does the intensityof the debate...as often times the media moves onto another government or societial issue....and people in this country find something else to complain about.

Its about feeling embarassed in regards to national pride it seems when the Olympics are on, but prioirty #72 come September for most people in this country.

[I_H8_Crawford]

I'm with Captain on this one - I'm tired of this Canadian mentality that "it's all right, as long as you do your best!" That's a loser's attitude if I've ever heard one.

Our athletes are making their personal bests? Wow! Considering that best is still about 12th in the world - YAY! We're top 15!!! Go Canada! Who needs to be 1st or 2nd when our guys can set personal bests that are considered mediocre at best on the world stage!

And I think what bugs me about the gov't funding is the fact that the Liberals mismanage so much of the tax money, and waste so much of it, then come back to us and cry poor when we ask for more funding for our athletes. Someone tell me that the athletes couldn't have used the $250 Million wasted in the sponsorship scandal? But instead that money is just going to the Liberals' good buddies, because we know that is so much more important to Canadians.

[browna]

Originally posted by I_H8_Crawford@Aug 18 2004, 11:42 AM

And I think what bugs me about the gov't funding is the fact that the Liberals mismanage so much of the tax money, and waste so much of it, then come back to us and cry poor when we ask for more funding for our athletes. Someone tell me that the athletes couldn't have used the $250 Million wasted in the sponsorship scandal? But instead that money is just going to the Liberals' good buddies, because we know that is so much more important to Canadians.

My point is that its not so simple to say that ad money or any other mismangeg $$ would work its way through to athletes. If that $$ got magically returned to the government, and choices had to be made what are the chances that athletes would see that money? Lobby groups would push towards increased healthcare spending, infrastructure.

Not even lobby groups, if $250 millon was suddenly free to spend on anything, and it went to referendum, with options such as healthcare, education etc on there with amateur sports, what are the chances that Canadians would have that $$ got to sports?

As far as personal bests...my point was that, before athletes and media lay the whole blame on inadequate funding, they should meet or exceed personal bests in the biggest races/events at the Olympics. If they get a personal best, and its 12th best in the competition, then there is more argument that something such as increased funding would help them get better...but just showing up, and performing poorly should'nt automatically allow the excuse of underfunding as doing poorly.

[octothorp]

I really question how much funding really affects performance. Can funding turn a canadian champion into world-champion? Does better funding help a world-champion canadian not make stupid mistakes like getting out of their rowing lanes or not slipping out of the starting blocks?

Personally, I'd rather see government money put toward encouraging healthy living, particularly within youth. It would have a trickle-down effect that would, over time, lead to better Olympic performances, simply by having more youngsters persuing athletics. A country like, for example, the Netherlands, doesn't win a lot of medals in the Olympics because they spend a lot of money on their athletes, they win because they have a healthy population and produce more athletes with the potential to get to that elite level.

[RougeUnderoos]

Random thoughts on the subject

How much can we really expect in the summer Olympics? It's winter here all the bloody time. Do they have a national outcry in Australia when they can't even qualify in "men's ice hockey"? The Argentinians are awful at bobsled -- how much soul searching goes on down there about a lack of bobsled funding?

Like someone said, the Olympics are entertaining for two weeks, then it's back to reality (sorry to any Olympians that might be reading this). Last week I was wondering why some triathlete was getting so much coverage compared to all the others and then I read the article and oh yeah he won a gold medal last time.


The whining gets a little tiresome. "I have to work a real job and I can't swim all day every day it's a disgrace". Umm, boo hoo hoo?

[CaptainCrunch]

Random thoughts on the subject

How much can we really expect in the summer Olympics? It's winter here all the bloody time. Do they have a national outcry in Australia when they can't even qualify in "men's ice hockey"? The Argentinians are awful at bobsled -- how much soul searching goes on down there about a lack of bobsled funding?

We went from being a very competitive and very good swimming nation, to a terrible swimming nation. We went from having some of the best sprinters in the world (Ben Johnson dosen't count) to having nothing. You can't tell me that we can't have top notch indoor training and stock them with good athletes. And besides we ain't exactly a winter olympics power either.

Like someone said, the Olympics are entertaining for two weeks, then it's back to reality (sorry to any Olympians that might be reading this). Last week I was wondering why some triathlete was getting so much coverage compared to all the others and then I read the article and oh yeah he won a gold medal last time.

We're raising a next generation of slackers, so why try. It would be nice to have athletic role models outside of hockey that we can actually look up to, not somebody who was estatic that they finished 58th in a race but hit a personal best. Raise the damn bar

The whining gets a little tiresome. "I have to work a real job and I can't swim all day every day it's a disgrace". Umm, boo hoo hoo?

[RougeUnderoos]

Fair enough Captain. Good points about the swimming and track.

I don't know about this "next generation of slackers" idea though. It may be true, but I think it has very little to do with the medal count at the Olympics. Someone (Octothorp I think) said the Feds should broadly be promoting a healthy lifestyle and that would have a positive effect on success rates.

That's sort of a chicken/egg question I guess. Promote healthy living to make better athletes, or fund athletes to get success which would (allegedly) give children role models to healthy living...? Ideally they'd do both I guess.

I don't know. Like I said, just random thoughts.

One other random thought -- millions of Canadians could'nt care less about the Olympics. We are all obviously sports fans in here so we have certain ideas. A lot of Canadians have different ideas and lots of interests that are also underfunded.

I like to hear about medals and cheer them on as much as the next guy, but when you get down to brass tacks, spending 100gs on Sally Backstroke's swimming coach does seem pretty low on the old priority list. But... if it could save money down the road by inspiring 10 thousand kids to join swimming clubs, then maybe its a hell of a deal.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Aug 18 2004, 02:51 PM

We're raising a next generation of slackers, so why try. It would be nice to have athletic role models outside of hockey that we can actually look up to, not somebody who was estatic that they finished 58th in a race but hit a personal best. Raise the damn bar

Watching some Olympic coverage tonight and I saw some Americans win more gold medals and I thought of this conversation we are having here.

They have more athletic role models than anyone and they've been kicking ass in the Olympics forever but lo and behold they are the fattest people in the history of the world (with us a close second I am sure).

I don't really know if I'm arguing with anyone with that point but it seemed sort of relevant to the conversation. Whether or not it actually is or not I don't know, as I am too fat and lazy (I'll blame it on the crappy medal count) to read the whole thread again.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think the concept of an athlete being a role model dosen't work for the average person, people are still sitting on thier couch eating thier crap and watching the olympics, and thats not going to change no matter what our Olympic athletes do whether its Canada or the U.S.

When I spoke about role models I'm going to slightly retract it.

A big part of a winning tradition is having the next generation of athletes looking up to the current generation, and the only way of that working is if the athletes win on a global stage.

Going back to swimming we had a whole next generation of swimmers that tried to surpass the previous generation of Bauman (sp?) davis etc. Same with track and Ben Johnson (bad example) but he spawned Bailey and Surin and others.

I believe our minister of sports is way off of track on his response, nobody is going to jump off of the couch and start doing jumping jacks because Canadian X won gold, he's going to spill his beer and nacho's and waddle to the fridge to get a replacement

make sense??