Who's in Hell?

[Cowperson]

A young Methodist pastor loses his job after questioning whether or not, among others, Ghandi is in hell.

Are there billions spending eternal torment in Hell . . . . . or is there a different answer? And . . . . . are you going to Hell?

His new book is raising questions among the Christian community . . .

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/24...rnal-torment/#

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

I figure we're already in hell.

Working 5 days a week, pollution, war, murders and violence and fat chicks in spandax.

We're all already dead and we're spending an eternity here.

When we die, our punishment ends and there's nothing else.

[TorqueDog]

Wow, Fox News is covering this? COLOUR ME SURPRISED.

[Flashpoint]

I figured this post should be in the hockey forum after last night... answer "us".

I don't imagine there's much "questioning" that goes on in the upper reaches of the Christian community. Critical thinking would interfere with "faith".

I find it depressing that the absurdities being pointed out in the concept of "hell" is worthy of news (albeit Fox) reporting. I suppose they're just reporting the firing itself.

[troutman]

Hell is other people. - Sartre

[CaptainCrunch]

If there's a super devil is there a super hell?

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I figure we're already in hell.

Working 5 days a week, pollution, war, murders and violence and fat chicks in spandax.

We're all already dead and we're spending an eternity here.

When we die, our punishment ends and there's nothing else.

I figured I was in Hell after leaving Hawaii and landing in Calgary, then having to drive home from the airport in a blizzard.

Most organized religions have some sort of punishment mechanism which has the purpose of terrifying followers from straying away from doctrine.

Even a committed atheist on his death bed is probably going to have the whisper of "terror" creeping through his head, the doubt of whether or not he/she should maybe make a little committment to God in exchange for eternal paradise and/or the avoidance of eternal torment.

You know . . . . . just in case.

Wow, Fox News is covering this? COLOUR ME SURPRISED.

You really need to get out more.

Cowperson

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Even a committed atheist on his death bed is probably going to have the whisper of "terror" creeping through his head, the doubt of whether or not he/she should maybe make a little committment to God in exchange for eternal paradise and/or the avoidance of eternal torment.

You know . . . . . just in case.

Cowperson

Sigh. When will this idea die, I mean its firstly quite insulting to a lot of people, and hints that atheists are just weak near the end and will play pascal's wager out of fear. I'm sure a small few might, but that shows their own convictions or how much they've thought about it during their life rather than anything else.

I must find this book, but a hospice nurse of over 40yrs of practice in Denmark (I think) made the clear distinction that the most ready for death and most at ease with it were the atheists, agnostics. The ones who struggled the most were those who were quite religious.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Thor

Sigh. When will this idea die, I mean its firstly quite insulting to a lot of people, and hints that atheists are just weak near the end and will play pascal's wager out of fear. I'm sure a small few might, but that shows their own convictions or how much they've thought about it during their life rather than anything else.

I must find this book, but a hospice nurse of over 40yrs of practice in Denmark (I think) made the clear distinction that the most ready for death and most at ease with it were the atheists, agnostics. The ones who struggled the most were those who were quite religious.

Love is the meaning of life.

You are probably familiar with this passage by Ann Druyan (wife of Carl Sagan):

http://www.2think.org/bab.shtml

Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists, there was no deathbed conversion, no last minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better. Even at this moment when anyone would be forgiven for turning away from the reality of our situation, Carl was unflinching. As we looked deeply into each others eyes, it was with a shared conviction that our wondrous life together was ending forever.

As I make the changes in proof that Carl feared might be necessary, his son Jeremy is upstairs giving Sam his nightly computer lesson. Sasha is in her room doing homework. The Voyager spacecraft, with their revelations of a tiny world graced by music and love, are beyond the outermost planets, making for the open sea of interstellar space. They are hurtling at a speed of forty thousand miles per hour toward the stars and a destiny about which we can only dream. I sit surrounded by cartons of mail from people all over the planet who mourn Carl's loss. Many of them credit him with their awakenings. Some of them say that Carl's example has inspired them to work for science and reason against the forces of superstition and fundamentalism. These thoughts comfort me and lift me up out of my heartache. They allow me to feel, without resorting to the supernatural, that Carl lives.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ann_dr...ence_religion/

When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me-it still sometimes happens-and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief and precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive and we were together was miraculous-not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance. . . . That pure chance could be so generous and so kind. . . . That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space and the immensity of time. . . . That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me and it’s much more meaningful. . . . The way he treated me and the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other and our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don't think I'll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.

Here is the dedication Carl Sagan wrote in his best-selling book Cosmos:

For Ann Druyan:
In the vastness of space and the immensity of time,
it is my joy to share
a planet and an epoch with Annie.

[killer_carlson]

actually Thor, in that study the most ready for death were direct descendants of vikings

[YYC in LAX]

Gandhi IS in hell...here is proof:



^^ Joke

[Thor]

I get to meet Ann this spring as our humanist group invited her to come speak, can't wait.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by troutman

Love is the meaning of life.

You are probably familiar with this passage by Ann Druyan (wife of Carl Sagan):

http://www.2think.org/bab.shtml

Contrary to the fantasies of the fundamentalists, there was no deathbed conversion, no last minute refuge taken in a comforting vision of a heaven or an afterlife. For Carl, what mattered most was what was true, not merely what would make us feel better. Even at this moment when anyone would be forgiven for turning away from the reality of our situation, Carl was unflinching. As we looked deeply into each others eyes, it was with a shared conviction that our wondrous life together was ending forever.

As I make the changes in proof that Carl feared might be necessary, his son Jeremy is upstairs giving Sam his nightly computer lesson. Sasha is in her room doing homework. The Voyager spacecraft, with their revelations of a tiny world graced by music and love, are beyond the outermost planets, making for the open sea of interstellar space. They are hurtling at a speed of forty thousand miles per hour toward the stars and a destiny about which we can only dream. I sit surrounded by cartons of mail from people all over the planet who mourn Carl's loss. Many of them credit him with their awakenings. Some of them say that Carl's example has inspired them to work for science and reason against the forces of superstition and fundamentalism. These thoughts comfort me and lift me up out of my heartache. They allow me to feel, without resorting to the supernatural, that Carl lives.

http://www.csicop.org/si/show/ann_dr...ence_religion/

When my husband died, because he was so famous and known for not being a believer, many people would come up to me-it still sometimes happens-and ask me if Carl changed at the end and converted to a belief in an afterlife. They also frequently ask me if I think I will see him again. Carl faced his death with unflagging courage and never sought refuge in illusions. The tragedy was that we knew we would never see each other again. I don't ever expect to be reunited with Carl. But, the great thing is that when we were together, for nearly twenty years, we lived with a vivid appreciation of how brief and precious life is. We never trivialized the meaning of death by pretending it was anything other than a final parting. Every single moment that we were alive and we were together was miraculous-not miraculous in the sense of inexplicable or supernatural. We knew we were beneficiaries of chance. . . . That pure chance could be so generous and so kind. . . . That we could find each other, as Carl wrote so beautifully in Cosmos, you know, in the vastness of space and the immensity of time. . . . That we could be together for twenty years. That is something which sustains me and it’s much more meaningful. . . . The way he treated me and the way I treated him, the way we took care of each other and our family, while he lived. That is so much more important than the idea I will see him someday. I don't think I'll ever see Carl again. But I saw him. We saw each other. We found each other in the cosmos, and that was wonderful.

Here is the dedication Carl Sagan wrote in his best-selling book Cosmos:

For Ann Druyan:
In the vastness of space and the immensity of time,
it is my joy to share
a planet and an epoch with Annie.

gotta stop chopping onions while i read CP

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

Love is the meaning of life.

Love is just a trick that nature plays on us to procreate and aid in the survival of a partner and family. It's not some glorious cosmic event with a low chance of happening between 2 people.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Thor

Sigh. When will this idea die, I mean its firstly quite insulting to a lot of people, and hints that atheists are just weak near the end and will play pascal's wager out of fear. I'm sure a small few might, but that shows their own convictions or how much they've thought about it during their life rather than anything else.

I must find this book, but a hospice nurse of over 40yrs of practice in Denmark (I think) made the clear distinction that the most ready for death and most at ease with it were the atheists, agnostics. The ones who struggled the most were those who were quite religious.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Love is just a trick that nature plays on us to procreate and aid in the survival of a partner and family. It's not some glorious cosmic event with a low chance of happening between 2 people.

Do you love your parents?

[SebC]

Sounds like Pastor Holtz has taken the first step towards atheism: questioning.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by troutman

Do you love your parents?

Of course. It is an emotion that evolved because it gives a survival advantage. People who share the same genes tend to look out for each other, which in turn, raises the likelihood of keeping those genes in the population.

[flamesrule_kipper34]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

A young Methodist pastor loses his job after questioning whether or not, among others, Ghandi is in hell.

Are there billions spending eternal torment in Hell . . . . . or is there a different answer? And . . . . . are you going to Hell?

His new book is raising questions among the Christian community . . .

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/24...rnal-torment/#

Cowperson

Who's Ghandi?

[dissentowner]

If you go by the bible then everybody is in hell that has passed. Heaven is a big empty place.