Government on the brink?

[Resolute 14]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politics/2005/.../979495-cp.html

First saw this yesterday, but one has to wonder, what was so stunning that it led the Liberal party to ask the RCMP to essentially investigate itself for fraud, and has caused several Conservatives to push Harper to topple the government?


As an aside, if the Conservatives played to Ontario, Newfoundland and Nova Scotia (and therefore Quebec, because that province will demand "its share" as well) on keeping it's resources, could they finally break through the Liberal wall and take a majority? Especially when used with a corruption campaign?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally posted by fotze@Apr 5 2005, 10:59 AM
They didn't ask to investigate themselves for fraud but the possibility that this was all orchestrated to make the liberals look bad. Would go down as quite the elaborate fraud case.

I am fairly certain that the Liberals are actually the ones who have made themselves look bad. That is what happens when you are caught with your hand in the cookie jar, and have a cookie in your mouth.... it is pretty pointless to try and blame it on your baby brother.

[photon]

If it were me, I'd want to wait until all this secret stuff from Adscam comes public.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by fotze@Apr 5 2005, 10:59 AM
They didn't ask to investigate themselves for fraud but the possibility that this was all orchestrated to make the liberals look bad. Would go down as quite the elaborate fraud case.

Their request is that an investigation be openend to see if some individuals within the party have defrauded the entire party. As I said, they are essentially asking for an investigation into themselves.

Rather ironic too. The Liberals are more than happy to paint the entire Conservative party with one brush when one individual says or does something offensive, yet are trying to set themselves apart from individuals within their own party who are corrupt.

[Hack&Lube]

We'll need a major coalition to for the CPC to win. I don't see them winning any seats in Quebec. Mulroney was only successful because he managed to win over Quebec over the Liberal government.

[Claeren]

If the conservatives would drop their extreme evangelical-christians-and-Americans-are-the-only-moral-people-and-everyone-should-have-to-live-like-us social policy in favour of a more balanced we-live-in-a-free-country-other-then-America type policy they would win no problem.

But as long as they maintain policies that while popular in Alberta are seen as red-neck and bigoted in the rest of Canada they are doomed, and at best might be able to win a small minority government but nothing more.

Their fiscal policy is what they need to focus on. Ideally most Canadians outside of Alberta (and many inside Alebrta too) want the fiscal policy of the Conservatives and the social policy of the Liberals and are not willing to give up their freedom to the bigots of the conservative party to get that fiscal policy of the conservatives.


My opinion anyways....

Claeren.

[Resolute 14]

Originally posted by Claeren@Apr 5 2005, 03:03 PM
If the conservatives would drop their extreme evangelical-christians-and-Americans-are-the-only-moral-people-and-everyone-should-have-to-live-like-us social policy in favour of a more balanced we-live-in-a-free-country-other-then-America type policy they would win no problem.

If people bothered to take the time to learn the issues and policies rather than simply buy into propaganda the conservatives would have a shot.

There are a lot of bigots in Liberal ranks as well, not the least of which was our former Prime Minister.

Hell, the Liberals won the 2000 Election on a bigoted campaign.

Ignorant voters are the Liberals best friend.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Apr 5 2005, 03:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Apr 5 2005, 03:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Apr 5 2005, 03:03 PM
If the conservatives would drop their extreme evangelical-christians-and-Americans-are-the-only-moral-people-and-everyone-should-have-to-live-like-us social policy in favour of a more balanced we-live-in-a-free-country-other-then-America type policy they would win no problem.

If people bothered to take the time to learn the issues and policies rather than simply buy into propaganda the conservatives would have a shot.

Ignorant voters are the Liberals best friend. [/b][/quote]
:tup:

Well said.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Snakeeye+Apr 5 2005, 02:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snakeeye @ Apr 5 2005, 02:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Claeren@Apr 5 2005, 03:03 PM
If the conservatives would drop their extreme evangelical-christians-and-Americans-are-the-only-moral-people-and-everyone-should-have-to-live-like-us social policy in favour of a more balanced we-live-in-a-free-country-other-then-America type policy they would win no problem.

Hell, the Liberals won the 2000 Election on a bigoted campaign.

Ignorant voters are the Liberals best friend.[/b][/quote]
With great political discourse like this, how can you not get excited about another election season :/

[Shawnski]

The Tories will have to answer to voters if they cause an election now — not even a year since the last one, said an aide to Prime Minister Paul Martin.

“They have said they recognize that Canadians do not want to see an election,” said Martin spokesman Scott Reid.

“If, in the face of all that they break their word and contradict themselves, they’ll have to explain their hypocrisy to voters.

“Canadians don’t much care for politicians who put their own political interests ahead of the public’s wishes.”

Holy Pot 'n Kettle Batman!!!

“Canadians don’t much care for politicians who put their own political interests ahead of the public’s wishes.” The WHOLE Ad-Scam blacked out testimony is about how the LIBERALS were putting "their own political interests ahead of the public's wishes".

Wow, simply... wow. God am I sick of spin doctors like this schmuck.

“Those members of the Liberal party should not have to bear the rumours . . . or the burden of the activities of a very small few who may have colluded against the party,” Martin told the Commons.

Yes, yes they should. Not only does this come across as an acceptance to the truthfulness of the testimony in question, but it is a clear indication that the party is NOT to be trusted since they were undoubtedly aware of this situation previously AND DID NOTHING TO BRING IT TO LIGHT!!!.

Bloody Fiberals.... I am so sick of them.

[RougeUnderoos]

Any party that keeps a moron like Stockwell Day on board (or even worse, elects him leader) will never, ever get a vote from me. Even if they specifically had a "RougeUnderoos Pays No Taxes" Policy I'd still vote for the university student under the Green flag.

I could even abide by their half-assed conservatism (they aren't going to change Canada's liberal social feel) if it meant getting rid of the thieving Liberals, but not until they get rid of that fataing idiot and a few others.

[BaronInEdmonton]

Off topic. but. I read yesterday that some American blog published 'secret' Adscam testimony. The stuff the us childlike Canadians aren't allowed to hear about. Does anyone know where this blog is?

[browna]

Originally posted by BaronInEdmonton@Apr 5 2005, 04:23 PM
Off topic. but. I read yesterday that some American blog published 'secret' Adscam testimony. The stuff the us childlike Canadians aren't allowed to hear about. Does anyone know where this blog is?

Like trading links to video feeds, powers that be have banned that site and discussion about that site from CP.

[4X4]

Originally posted by Claeren@Apr 5 2005, 03:03 PM
If the conservatives would drop their extreme evangelical-christians-and-Americans-are-the-only-moral-people-and-everyone-should-have-to-live-like-us social policy

Well, I respect your opinion. My opinion is that this statement is a pile of crap.

Don't get me wrong, the conservatives are quite "conservative", but this is excessive. They champion morality & traditional lifestyles. Some of them are pro-life, some are not. They are probably hypocritical behind closed doors (I bet that some of them have had an abortion, or are gay or bi, or like to smoke weed).

Really, what you are saying is as assinine as saying that all NDPers are gay, tree-hugging, intolerant-of-anyone-who-isn't-tolerant, longhaired, union-working hippies.

I think that the Liberal propaganda machine has gotten to you.

My opinion.

[photon]

Originally posted by browna@Apr 5 2005, 05:33 PM
Like trading links to video feeds, powers that be have banned that site and discussion about that site from CP.

With good cause.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/N...983036-sun.html

CANADA'S attorney general is probing possible breaches of a publication ban set up to protect explosive testimony at the AdScam inquiry. Justice spokesman Patrick Charette said federal lawyers are looking into the Internet sites reproducing excerpts of Montreal ad exec Jean Brault's testimony and providing a link to a U.S. blog featuring more extensive coverage of the hearing.

"We have to decide what the best course of action is," Charette said, adding federal lawyers could charge Canadian bloggers and website owners with contempt of court or suggest AdScam Justice John Gomery issue warning letters.

EDIT: Oh and the stance on the video thing has been relaxed a bit. As long as the clips are short, low quality, and obviously not for profit then it's ok. Check the guidelines for more info.

[browna]

Originally posted by photon+Apr 5 2005, 04:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (photon @ Apr 5 2005, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-browna@Apr 5 2005, 05:33 PM
Like trading links to video feeds, powers that be have banned that site and discussion about that site from CP.

With good cause.

http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/TorontoSun/N...983036-sun.html

CANADA'S attorney general is probing possible breaches of a publication ban set up to protect explosive testimony at the AdScam inquiry. Justice spokesman Patrick Charette said federal lawyers are looking into the Internet sites reproducing excerpts of Montreal ad exec Jean Brault's testimony and providing a link to a U.S. blog featuring more extensive coverage of the hearing.

"We have to decide what the best course of action is," Charette said, adding federal lawyers could charge Canadian bloggers and website owners with contempt of court or suggest AdScam Justice John Gomery issue warning letters.

[/b][/quote]
Well, they can go after CTV first for releasing the site to millions of Canadians on the news.

Not a big deal to me that we can't talk about it there, but the government should be less worried then leaked facts and more worried about the millions they already wasted, and not hire another load of $500 an hour lawyers to draft letters to every website that carrys a link to that blog.

Are the CP servers still in Scotland? Were they ever there?

[Resolute 14]

Interesting Rouge. I'm curious why the entire Conservative party loses your vote because of one man. Even admitting that Day turned out to be a giant mistake. Though I guess that is as good a reason as any when it comes to our politicians, I'm curious to know why.

Did you vote Reform before Day became the Alliance leader?


Baron, the interesting thing about "that site" is who visited it. According to a Canadian Blog, many high level departments within both the Canadian and American governments visited that blog looking for info:

Without a doubt the news story of the day is the US blogger who has posted "purported" Brault evidence which is under a publication ban in Canada.

Statistics revealed that at 11.30 P.M. over 25,000 web travelers visited this blog searching for the illicit material today. Among the visitors: Privy Council Office, Justice Canada, Agriculture Canada, Transport Canada, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Heritage Canada, Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, Environment Canada, National Defense, C.I.D.A, many Law firms, Banks, Corporations, Provincial Governments, the R.C.M.P. and of great interest the U.S. State Department.

The U.S. State Department... do we have the makings of a cross border incident here?

What was said that got so many departments in such a tizzy? Why are the Alberta Liberals floating the idea of changing their party name? Just how how deep in the cookie jar where the Liberals?

[photon]

Originally posted by browna@Apr 5 2005, 05:45 PM
Well, they can go after CTV first for releasing the site to millions of Canadians on the news.

Not a big deal to me that we can't talk about it there, but the government should be less worried then leaked facts and more worried about the millions they already wasted, and not hire another load of $500 an hour lawyers to draft letters to every website that carrys a link to that blog.

Are the CP servers still in Scotland? Were they ever there?

I agree, though in most cases a publication ban should be respected; the nature of this one and it's relevance to a possible election though makes it a lot more difficult to justify.

I believe the CP server is located in California at the moment.

[Claeren]

I didn't mean to suggest that perception is the absolute truth, all i am suggesting is that the PERCEPTIONS of it being the truth outside of Alberta are enough to prevent the Conservatives from winning - regardless of how true it is.

Having grown up around the families of high ranking Canservative (Reform/CA) families and now having many of them as professors the statement is at least 80% true among the Alberta faction of the Conservative party though. For example EVERY one of my Conservative professors are ex-American, aging white christians, with extreme right-wing social and fiscal views they would LOVE to impose on the rest of Canada - essentially their mantra can be summarized by: "I grew up in America and ended up moving to Canada for some random reason (other then the high quality of life afforded by high levels of Government regulation and social support) and raised my family here but now i don't like it and think it should be America-Junior in ALL regards."

To me that is FAR from what most non-Albertans want Canada to become.


And that is without even looking into experiences with Ezra Levant, Stockwell Day, the entire Byfield family and Rob Anders types....


You MAY be able to argue it is not a fair assessment but you cannot argue it is not the assessment of the majority of Canadians in the non-Alberta ridings the Conservative need to win....


Claeren.

[Claeren]

What is most interesting to me is that the Conservatives would rather gays not get married (something arguably afforded them in the Charter and something that certainly does not affect the Conservatives lives beyond ways gays may already do so) then form the next government....


Also, the Globe & Mail had most of the name of the blog as its headline today.... crazy...



PS - I regards to my posts, i STRONGLY support virtually every Conservative fiscal measure, i just want to live in a country that is fiscally responsible and socially 'free' in every way at the same time..... in other words i am among those votes that could be won by a softening of the social policies of the ultra-right faction of the party...


Claeren.