4 in 10 Americans Still Hold Creationist Views

[Cheese]

If you're in a room of 100 people, odds are likely about 40 think God created humans about 10,000 years ago, part of a philosophy called creationism, according to a Gallup poll reported Friday (Dec. 17). That number is slightly lower than in years past and down from a high of 47 percent in both 1993 and 1999.
And 38 percent of Americans, the poll estimates, believe God guided the process that brought humans from "cavemen" to today's incarnation over millions of years, while 16 percent think humans evolved over millions of years, without any divine intervention.



Article


Still a LONG way to go...<sigh>

[Jimmy Stang]

I can see this thread ending well...

[theonlywhiteout]

ive been to the southern US. those people are in no hurry to come along.

[WhiteTiger]

I'd wonder what the numbers were over the years, going back say...100? I know that the number of believers is diminishing, but I am curious as to how fast.

[ricosuave]

Huh, would have thought it would have been higher, actually.

[Weiser Wonder]

Good news for the Ark builders. Although I'd say a good amount of them are extremely passive believers.

[stuck_in_chuk]

Originally Posted by WhiteTiger

I'd wonder what the numbers were over the years, going back say...100? I know that the number of believers is diminishing, but I am curious as to how fast.

I don't have the stats, but I suspect that they have actually gone up somewhat from the 1970s.

Also, the thread title is misleading - actually, roughly 85% of Americans are creationists of some stripe, whereas 40% are young earth creationists.

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Huh, would have thought it would have been higher, actually.

Yeah, I was quite suprised that it was below 50%

[Doctordestiny]

I'm in the old-Earth, God-guided camp. I'm buds with Francis Collins.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Still a LONG way to go...<sigh>

[Cheese]

[CaptainCrunch]

www.calgaryreligiousdebate.com

[photon]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

I'm in the old-Earth, God-guided camp. I'm buds with Francis Collins.

You might like this site:

http://www.biologos.org/

I link that sometimes when discussing with young earth creationists.

Collins is seen as a "compromiser" by evangelicals and accused of still trying to marry science and faith by non-believers, so he's fighting a war on two fronts.

Collins doesn't believe in god-guided evolution though, more god-initiated.

So like gravity god created gravity but doesn't intervene in the motions of the planets constantly rather just lets gravity do its thing, same with evolution, god established evolution but doesn't tweak and guide things, just lets it take it's course. That's how I understand Collins' view anyway (I have his book, but haven't fully read it yet, I lent it out), I could have it wrong.

[Doctordestiny]

Originally Posted by photon

You might like this site:

http://www.biologos.org/

I link that sometimes when discussing with young earth creationists.

Collins is seen as a "compromiser" by evangelicals and accused of still trying to marry science and faith by non-believers, so he's fighting a war on two fronts.

Collins doesn't believe in god-guided evolution though, more god-initiated.

So like gravity god created gravity but doesn't intervene in the motions of the planets constantly rather just lets gravity do its thing, same with evolution, god established evolution but doesn't tweak and guide things, just lets it take it's course. That's how I understand Collins' view anyway (I have his book, but haven't fully read it yet, I lent it out), I could have it wrong.

I'll check out the website. I know what Collins believes but didn't describe it well. I've read The Language of God and have listened to the audio book twice.

[algernon]

Serious question, Cheese.

Have you been personally wronged by Christians at some point, or do you dislike the general idea of religion?
I ask, because my Grandparents were missionaries in the 50's up in Northern Alberta and were/are the salt of the Earth.
I've heard countless stories of Grandpa bringing homeless people home for dinner, or pulling over and giving someone a sweater or coat in the middle of the winter, with no expectation of anything in return.
I realize that many people have been harmed by zealots over the course of humanity, but not all religious people are misguided sheep.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Doctordestiny

I'll check out the website. I know what Collins believes but didn't describe it well. I've read The Language of God and have listened to the audio book twice.

Yeah it's a fine (but significant) distinction between theistic evolution and what Collins proposes.

I think this sums it up:

http://biologos.org/questions/evolut...divine-action/

The funny thing is whenever I start to use the biologos site and information in a discussion about evolution with young earth creationists I almost always get completely ignored. They'd rather discuss Dawkins and visibly atheistic supporters of evolution in an effort to tie evolution and atheism together (which is of course their whole goal, they can't fight evolution with facts, so they have to undermine it by dancing out the atheist puppy eating boogeyman).

And if they don't ignore Collins' view and information, they, without fail, call Collins and his ilk compromisers and not real Christians, that they're really atheists pretending.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by algernon

Serious question, Cheese.

Have you been personally wronged by Christians at some point, Nope, but I was very religious at one time.

or do you dislike the general idea of religion? Yes

I ask, because my Grandparents were missionaries in the 50's up in Northern Alberta and were/are the salt of the Earth. Are you suggesting that one must be a Missionary to do good?

I've heard countless stories of Grandpa bringing homeless people home for dinner, or pulling over and giving someone a sweater or coat in the middle of the winter, with no expectation of anything in return. Again...are you suggesting only the religious do this?

I realize that many people have been harmed by zealots over the course of humanity, but not all religious people are misguided sheep. No they aren't, as Ive mentioned a 100 times on this website, one of my best friends is a Pastor...but even he cant explain the book he believes without falling on "Faith".

See answers in red...so my question falls to you....do you believe wholeheartedly that man must believe in a God <any God> to do good unto others, or to be a good person?
Your Grandparents were born of another era when religion was demanded of most people. I'm sure they would have been great giving people had they been allowed to grow up without the associated guilt.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by algernon

do you dislike the general idea of religion?

Willful ignorance of scientific fact is a symptom of the disease, anti-intellectualism.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by photon

...Collins doesn't believe in god-guided evolution though, more god-initiated.

So like gravity god created gravity but doesn't intervene in the motions of the planets constantly rather just lets gravity do its thing, same with evolution, god established evolution but doesn't tweak and guide things, just lets it take it's course. That's how I understand Collins' view anyway (I have his book, but haven't fully read it yet, I lent it out), I could have it wrong.

I have not engaged with Collins' ideas, so I can't really offer an opinion on them one way or the other, but it seems to me from your summary of them here that he is akin to a deist.

At present, I am attracted to deism as it seems to be the most reasonable position for those of us who believe in God, but are also committed to naturalism. However, more recently, I find myself less enthused about deism a few months ago, as it still presumes that God is a transcendent outside agent. I am much more interested at present in working my way through a philosophical system that sees God as an active agent within my reality: a much less transcendent God, and a much more naturalistic one. Of course, such a concept of God must utterly do away with such cardinal Christian theoological ideas as omniscience, omnipresence, omnipotence, infinity, etc. This is okay as far as I am concerned; I find it much more stimulating to interact with a God who is not so alien.

As for the numbers in the first post, they provide for some optimism if the numbers of "true believers" is actually gradually in decline.

[peter12]

I hold the view that to not believe in evolution, in general, is to be somewhat of an idiot. The evidence is too overwhelming for us not to be persuaded by Darwin's theory. However, I understand the trepidation of many when confronted with the theory. When presented with the rich complexity of humanity and the dark reductionism of what is now "science," I have to say that Darwinism doesn't explain to me the "finish carpentry" of human life. Thus, I remain somewhat of an agnostic, although in a contemporary way, an atheist. The existence of God depends entirely upon the divine's ability to inspire action and reveal truth to humanity. That capacity is dead. God is dead and we have slain him.