What can be done? Iran - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

T@T · 02-11-2010, 11:54 PM

Ok, so we have the President (Ahmadinejad) openly saying "death to Israel" and then snubbing the UN's offer to ship it's uranium out for enrichment and announcing they will begin enriching uranium on their own.

Basically saying ###### you we want to build nuclear weapons and with gods help we will have them and "god willing" one of those will annihilate Israel.

Can the civilized world sit back and allow these religious freaks that run that country to produce nuclear weapons?

This country is screwed, now they are executing citizens under the term "mohareb" (enemy of god) for political protests. Isn't this murder? crimes against humanity?

The whole thing reminds me of 1932 when Hitler snubbed his nose at the world and said ###### the Treaty of Versailles, illegally re-built a huge military and nobody did a thing about it until it was too late.

RougeUnderoos · 02-12-2010, 12:51 AM

Wow, right in the first post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

KootenayFlamesFan · 02-12-2010, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T@T

This country is screwed, now they are executing citizens under the term "mohareb" (enemy of god) for political protests. Isn't this murder? crimes against humanity?

I was just reading about that a few minutes ago. Pretty scary stuff. One quote I read summed it up pretty well.

Quote:

"It takes a lot of ... political insecurity to say if you don't do something I tell you to do, you are an enemy of God," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/...ex.html?hpt=T2

Hack&Lube · 02-12-2010, 01:15 AM

They're also cutting off access to gmail and twitter and setting up their own government run e-mail system (of course this is so that they can read your mail).

eddly · 02-12-2010, 01:17 AM

I really don't think anything of significance can be done any time soon. There just is no quick fix.

Perhaps the best solution is to give Iran less attention in the media. Ahmadi-Najad crosses the street and it seems to be reported by the media. Don't get me wrong, the horrible acts against humanity that have occurred there and those that could occur in the future can't be ignored, the world needs to know. Ahmadi-Najad just seems to feed off the attention...

Honestly I just don't know... the Western world is just so different than what we see in Iran. For example, Ahmadi-Najad would probably consider the Bloc Quebecois to be enemies of God... clearly church and state need to be separate for starters...

I'd really like to hear the opinions of Iranians living in North America.

Hack&Lube · 02-12-2010, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddly

I really don't think anything of significance can be done any time soon. There just is no quick fix.

Perhaps the best solution is to give Iran less attention in the media. Ahmadi-Najad crosses the street and it seems to be reported by the media. Don't get me wrong, the horrible acts against humanity that have occurred there and those that could occur in the future can't be ignored, the world needs to know. Ahmadi-Najad just seems to feed off the attention...

Honestly I just don't know... the Western world is just so different than what we see in Iran. For example, Ahmadi-Najad would probably consider the Bloc Quebecois to be enemies of God... clearly church and state need to be separate for starters...

What does the media have to do with it? Iran doesn't care what the western media says or does. The cabal in control of government is in bed with the group that controls the church and in turn they are exerting a theo-facist style grip on their society. The West is simply the scapegoat and 3rd enemy the government drums up propaganda about to throw off criticisms of itself. This is what all these corrupt middle eastern countries and even ones like North Korea do. For years, the corruption in Egypt was terrible and the leaders would manufacture stories about the West to turn the people's aggression away from themselves.

Throughout all the protests after the disputed election and the vast demonstrations and riots, the government kept repeating the hardline that the demonstrations were caused not by the malcontent majority group of their own people but rather by western agents and monarchists.

Iran is a deeply divided country where young people are the largest demographic group and yearning for freedom but least empowered. The government is full of remnants of the youth of 1979 who will do anything to retain their own power in the name of Allah. The battle between liberals and conservatives is also a tale of wealth and poverty. The Basiji Militia you hear so much about are mostly recruited from poor villages and farms where they are uneducated men who are desperate for money and hardliners on religion.

eddly · 02-12-2010, 01:33 AM

Could some of the propaganda be true to an extent though? I have no idea, maybe US and Britain tried their best to have Ahmadi-Najad replaced by trying to influence opposition groups as Ahmadi-Najad claims.

I've also read articles that they have blamed the US for creating earthquakes in Iran... so obviously the truth is blurred...

Are those American hikers still being held in Iran?

Thor · 02-12-2010, 01:38 AM

You have to remember, half the population is under 30, the vast majority of those people are liberal and progressive voters.

Its not the correct way to push them into a corner, besides Israel would be able to deal with them quickly if necessary and have the justification to do so.

Iran honestly isn't that big of a deal, the whole middle east as a whole is, the lack of education, the lack of women's rights, the religious zealotry... those are the things that keep me up at night.

Hack&Lube · 02-12-2010, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddly

Could some of the propaganda be true to an extent though? I have no idea, maybe US and Britain tried their best to have Ahmadi-Najad replaced by trying to influence opposition groups as Ahmadi-Najad claims.

I've also read articles that they have blamed the US for creating earthquakes in Iran... so obviously the truth is blurred...

Are those American hikers still being held in Iran?

AchMyDinnerJacket is just a puppet and does not really matter in the long run. He has no real power. The Iranian Islamic Clerics and Grand Ayatollah Ali Khamenei is the real despot here. The last election was likely rigged with his knowledge.

Khamenei is the Kim Jong Il of Iran under the guise of being the supreme religious authority. He's even very likely going to appoint his son Mojtaba Khamenei, as the next supreme ruler of Iran.

See how this is going? These people can't be bargained with. They are the absolute rulers of their countries and they want nothing. You can put as many critcisms you want into the western media, impose as many government sanctions as you want, the only people that will suffer are the common folk and that will in turn be turned around by the government to yet again get their people to blame the west instead of their own leaders.

All you can hope for is that these people die and better men take their places. Change will come but it will take many long years. The Iranian green movement really hoped that Mousavi would be that person to bring more liberal freedoms to Iran but they are powerless as long as the government can rig elections and controls the police and military. The other thing you can hope for is that discontent spreads far enough that there is a civil uprising in Iran like in 1979 that is also backed by the military (the Iranian Air Force were the first to turn from the Shah to back the Islamists then).

America doesn't have to lift a finger. You probably missed the last summer during the Iranian election.

Iranians aren't dumb and you cannot paint them with the same brush like American conservatives seem to do. These protests by their own people occured almost daily until the government starting cracking down hard.

PyramidsofMars · 02-12-2010, 01:45 AM

Iran is a fascinating place to study politically and socially, and has a very rich tradition in philosophy and the arts. It is ignorant to boil the nation down to the insane morons who took over in 1979.

Heck, the reformists, who would have done so much to improve Iran's relationship with the world, DID win an election. The people spoke. But the authoritarian system shut them down and Ahmedinijad remained with his tyrannic grip on Iran.

I don't think Iran is going to act on their threats, there will be a violent revolution led by the intelligent, reformist youth and older reformers before the crazy religious leadership act out their genocidal wet dreams.

eddly · 02-12-2010, 01:47 AM

What impact do you think the executions of protesters will have on the people in Iran who oppose AchMyDinnerJacket (definitely more appropriate)? Will it unite them and increase their numbers or will it scatter and silence them?

Where is Mousavi during all this? Has he disappeared since the election?

Hack&Lube · 02-12-2010, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddly

What impact do you think the executions of protesters will have on the people in Iran who oppose AchMyDinnerJacket (definitely more appropriate)? Will it unite them and increase their numbers or will it scatter and silence them?

Where is Mousavi during all this? Has he disappeared since the election?

The mass trials, the executions, the beatings, etc. are all totally public and transparent in Iran. Over the past few months, you could see the police beatings and arrests on the streets everyday. People are all aware of these things. It does crack down hard on people and send them hiding and underground.

Mousavi (who was actually Prime Minister of Iran in the 80s) has appeared infrequently, calling for peaceful demonstrations and for people to continue shouting "Allah Ackbar" from rooftops at night. This mirrors a practice from 1979 when they would do the same. It's a form of passive resistance. It's actually a protest chant against the current sitting government/religious cabal.

The probem is that Mousavi's supporters, his family, and even himself have come under the threat of arrest. Top Iranian officials have called for Mousavi's execution.

The only real glimmer of hope in the past months was Grand Ayatollah Hossein Ali Montazeri who was one of the figureheads of the 1979 revolution, a student of the original leader, and was almost supreme leader of Iran himself. He had the credentials and the guts to speak out against the government and other clerics and he couldn't be touched because of his history and respect people had for him. Unfortunately, he died recently.

T@T · 02-12-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddly

Could some of the propaganda be true to an extent though? I have no idea, maybe US and Britain tried their best to have Ahmadi-Najad replaced by trying to influence opposition groups as Ahmadi-Najad claims.

I've also read articles that they have blamed the US for creating earthquakes in Iran... so obviously the truth is blurred...

Are those American hikers still being held in Iran?

Yes they are, Ahmadinejad wants to swap them for suspected Iranian arms dealers jailed in the US.

It's only fair as these 3 hikers are obvious spies.

killer_carlson · 02-12-2010, 07:45 AM

I don't know what the solution is. Israel's army could wipe out the entire middle east if it were so inclined. And if Iran picks a fight you know Isreal would take out Syria and Lebanon as well. The Israelis won't pick the fight though.

I think the best solution is an educated youth with a taste for democracy (as opposed to an educated youth with a taste for religious fundamentalism like the origens of the Taliban). I think the solution is found in these protesters who keep getting blasted and jailed by the government.

Cowperson · 02-12-2010, 07:55 AM

This essayist in Newsweek says Amhadinejad and his political team are increasingly moving away from his previous religious sponsors, even undermining them and moving in his own direction . . . .

http://www.newsweek.com/id/233423

Cowperson

Delthefunky · 02-12-2010, 08:08 AM

Great thread with lots of insight, the only thing I can think of though is of all the places to go hiking, why Iran?

mikey_the_redneck · 02-12-2010, 09:24 AM

Iran is no more of a threat to us than Iraq was when they were accused of having "weapons of mass destruction".....

Frankly, I hope Iran does bomb the hell out of Israel...

mykalberta · 02-12-2010, 09:30 AM

Does anything need to be done?

If they shoot a nuke at Isreal yes a a city might be destroyed. But after that ALL of Iran would be nuked to kingdom come, and I do mean ALL without remorse and without mercy.

The only people who can and should stop it are Iranians themselves - if they are unable to see the resulting domino effect then...

This is as it always is, a ploy to make Iran seem more powerful to its Islamic allies than it actually is.

Bigtime · 02-12-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delthefunky

Great thread with lots of insight, the only thing I can think of though is of all the places to go hiking, why Iran?

Have you seen any pictures of the countryside in Iran? It looks absolutely gorgeous!

I would love to travel there some day to take it all in.

CaptainCrunch · 02-12-2010, 09:31 AM

First and foremost, unless you want to interfere directly in Iran, or fund their protestors there's not a hell of a lot you can do. Iran is not going to bow to UN pressure or outside pressure, they don't care about the Western Media at all, they don't care about sanctions. The only way that you can possibly get their attention is to either aid in the overthrow which is unlilkely because the police and military are completely on the side of the government, or give them a bloody nose by destroying their enrichment capability through air or missile strikes.

And two

Mikey, that is one of the dumbest things I've ever read, but considering your reading list, why am I not surprised.