Russia plants flag under North Pole - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

calculoso · 08-02-2007, 09:31 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6927395.stm

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Russian explorers have planted their country's flag on the seabed 4,200m (14,000ft) below the North Pole to further Moscow's claims to the Arctic.

Cowperson · 08-02-2007, 09:34 AM

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Originally Posted by calculoso

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6927395.stm

Great. Just what the Arctic needs . . . . . a bunch of commie squatters.

Cowperson

Burninator · 08-02-2007, 09:37 AM

No coincidence that Canada has plans to put patrols boats up there.

kermitology · 08-02-2007, 09:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Cowperson

Great. Just what the Arctic needs . . . . . a bunch of commie squatters.

Cowperson

Nuke the buggers! Make it a wastelan.. oh wait.

lifer · 08-02-2007, 09:54 AM

"This isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory'," said Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/c...tic_canada_col

Sounds like the Conservatives are just giggling at this. I thought this was a funny response form MacKay.

Cowperson · 08-02-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lifer

"This isn't the 15th century. You can't go around the world and just plant flags and say 'We're claiming this territory'," said Canadian Foreign Minister Peter MacKay.

If you have an economy barely larger than Mexico's but you also have nukes . . . . . well, maybe you can.

Terra Incognito!!!!

Cowperson

REDVAN · 08-02-2007, 10:03 AM

I'm not all that worried. When the time for action presents itself, I think Canada will do what is required. No one will take any land from us.

Although it is hilarious that Russia dropped a flag at the bottom of the sea.

CaptainCrunch · 08-02-2007, 10:16 AM

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The 'big Red dog' is diggin' in our backyard, and we are justified in shooting him!

General Curtis LeMay

Thunderball · 08-02-2007, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by REDVAN

I'm not all that worried. When the time for action presents itself, I think Canada (with firm guidance and support from the US and UK)will do what is required. No one will take any land from the USA's economic buddy and resources that will likely be traded to the US freely.

Although it is hilarious that Russia dropped a flag at the bottom of the sea.

Edited for likely outcome. Canada is a minnow in International affairs, and neither the US or the British want the arctic to belong to anyone else but someone they are tight with economically and politically. If they had a decent claim, they'd make it... but for now, they'll likely back Canada since they will likely get the best deals from them. (so they may get their piece of the action if there is as much oil in the arctic as they think).

It is very hilarious that they tried the flag thing... though historically, international law has granted legitimacy to that sort of activity.

HelloHockeyFans · 08-02-2007, 10:30 AM

Why are they provoking us? Aren't they afraid we'll fight back?

ken0042 · 08-02-2007, 10:34 AM

I can see this being a good move for both Canada and Russia. Russia sees that the US is looking to expand its presence in the Arctic. So instead of standing up to the US, they do something that as others have mentioned will force the US to back Canada's claim to the Arctic.

So Canada ends up with a stronger claim, and the Russians have fewer Americans to worry about mucking about up there.

Thunderball · 08-02-2007, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by ken0042

I can see this being a good move for both Canada and Russia. Russia sees that the US is looking to expand its presence in the Arctic. So instead of standing up to the US, they do something that as others have mentioned will force the US to back Canada's claim to the Arctic.

So Canada ends up with a stronger claim, and the Russians have fewer Americans to worry about mucking about up there.

Pretty much, International Relations are one hell of a chess game, aren't they?

I think they are genuinely hoping for a favored claim for political reasons and optics (The "Russia is still a global giant" look), but I think the desired policy side-effect is exactly that, the US forced to back someone else's claim, rather than have two weaker claims against a strong Russian claim. Its win-win for them, since they are definitely not going after an assertive state in Canada.

worth · 08-02-2007, 10:38 AM

Dear Canadian Government,

Please expel all Russian ice dancers and stop the importation of all Smirnoff products.

Signed,

CP

troutman · 08-02-2007, 10:38 AM

Santa will sort them out.

Drunk Skunk · 08-02-2007, 10:48 AM

"We stole countries with the cunning use of flags."

REDVAN · 08-02-2007, 10:49 AM

Thunderball, thanks for fixing my post.

I never said Canada would be alone in this matter. BUt I also would like the Conservatives to use this as a political thing, and stand up for Canada. Nothing would sway public opinion to them even more than with a PROPER military useage.

Thunderball · 08-02-2007, 10:55 AM

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Originally Posted by REDVAN

Thunderball, thanks for fixing my post.

I never said Canada would be alone in this matter. BUt I also would like the Conservatives to use this as a political thing, and stand up for Canada. Nothing would sway public opinion to them even more than with a PROPER military useage.

My changes were a little tongue-in-cheek... what you said was fine. But yeah, Canada needs this opportunity to say, "hey, we aren't a bunch of spineless, passive yes-men... we'll defend ourselves and be damn aggressive doing it, so don't mess with us." Of course, to adequately do this, I think they have to give up the ghost and start using nuclear subs capable of patrolling the arctic.

calculoso · 08-02-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REDVAN

No one will take any land from us.

Although it is hilarious that Russia dropped a flag at the bottom of the sea.

It's not "land" that Russia is after.. it's the oil and gas deposits at the bottom of the sea that they are laying claim to.

QR77... err. ahem.. AM770CHQR had the Premier of the NorthWest Territories on for a bit with Sterling Faux this morning. He had the opinion that this is only one of a number of things affecting Canada right now. This area of the sea is desired by Denmark (Greenland) and Russia. The Northern Passage is desired to be freely available by the US. Alaska's sea boundary with Canada looks to keep being pushed towards Canada. All of these which are affronts to Canada's territory.

He was glad that Harper is speaking out about it. He is the first Prime Minister since Diefenbaker - 40ish years - to speak/act about this... and is to speak about it again next week.

CaptainCrunch · 08-02-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderball

My changes were a little tongue-in-cheek... what you said was fine. But yeah, Canada needs this opportunity to say, "hey, we aren't a bunch of spineless, passive yes-men... we'll defend ourselves and be damn aggressive doing it, so don't mess with us." Of course, to adequately do this, I think they have to give up the ghost and start using nuclear subs capable of patrolling the arctic.

Unfortunately the chances of Canada aquiring nuclear subs would be way to expensive, you have to have a completely different infrastructure, and a completely different class of sailors to be able to pursue it. Canada probably could have made the changeover under the Mulrooney government, but I think its next to impossible for the government to be able to do it now.

The Victoria Submarines are incapable of patroling the artic if they actually ever sail again.

The best solution is to aquire AIP/fuel cell based submarines like the U-212/214 class from Germany which can remain submerged for several weeks and has a diving depth of 400 meters.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

As another note the British have announce thier new class of Astute SSN's which have the capability of circling the earth 40 times without refueling

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/astute/

peter12 · 08-02-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Unfortunately the chances of Canada aquiring nuclear subs would be way to expensive, you have to have a completely different infrastructure, and a completely different class of sailors to be able to pursue it. Canada probably could have made the changeover under the Mulrooney government, but I think its next to impossible for the government to be able to do it now.

The Victoria Submarines are incapable of patroling the artic if they actually ever sail again.

The best solution is to aquire AIP/fuel cell based submarines like the U-212/214 class from Germany which can remain submerged for several weeks and has a diving depth of 400 meters.

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/type_212/

As another note the British have announce thier new class of Astute SSN's which have the capability of circling the earth 40 times without refueling

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/astute/

Fuel-cell subs with the ability to dive below the icebergs would be perfect. I've read those things are like holes in the ocean, almost completely undetectable by surface vessels, especially to the Russian navy, which is completely trained to detect the louder nuke subs.

I was reading a rumour that the Chinese managed to surface a couple of fuel-cell subs right in the middle of a US carrier group doing exercises off of Taiwan.