Liberals get coveted endorsement from Criminals - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Canada 02 · 01-14-2006, 02:59 PM

How appropriate is it that criminals are endorsing the Liberal party? Takes one to know one

Friday was voting day for prisoners across Canada. About 35,000 were eligible to vote, and many seemed to be voting Liberal in order to protect privileges that Conservatives threaten to take away.
"We're all voting for the Liberals, just because we want to keep our vote," Jeff Power, an inmate at Manitoba's Stony Mountain facility told CTV Winnipeg. "We don't want to lose rights like our TVs

http://www.ctv.ca//servlet/ArticleNe...on2006&no_ads=

On the same day, the Conservative receive endorsement from Aboriginal Canadians. I thought the Tories were exclusionary and divisive? Go figure.

FireFly · 01-14-2006, 03:12 PM

Well that's fabulous. Makes me want to vote Liberal... I think my tax dollars are put to good use paying for the electricity to run prisoners tvs and Playstations.

RougeUnderoos · 01-14-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well that's fabulous. Makes me want to vote Liberal... I think my tax dollars are put to good use paying for the electricity to run prisoners tvs and Playstations.

Yeah because they should be locked up in the dark. That'll learn 'em.

Winsor_Pilates · 01-14-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Well that's fabulous. Makes me want to vote Liberal... I think my tax dollars are put to good use paying for the electricity to run prisoners tvs and Playstations.

Don't let this thread influence your vote. It's just fear mongering from the spinmasters.

FireFly · 01-14-2006, 03:48 PM

It was sarcastic people. I bleed Conservative Blue, (mostly).

FireFly · 01-14-2006, 03:51 PM

Perhaps I should add that IMO, being part of a society means obeying the laws of said society. If a person does not wish to obey the laws of a society, they should also not reap the benefits of living in that society. Voting is one of those benefits. I don't really care if they watch tv or play on their playstations or whatever. I don't agree with their right to vote until they are done serving their time and are released once again into society to try and be a law abiding member of that society.

Agamemnon · 01-14-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

It was sarcastic people. I bleed Conservative Blue, (mostly).

I think WP was being sarcastic too... your tone wasn't misinterpreted.

Table 5 · 01-14-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Yeah because they should be locked up in the dark. That'll learn 'em.

I dunno, i tend to think TV is a form of luxury, and luxuries should be kept to a minimum in a prison system (unless perhaps used as a carrot). Obviously treating prisoners like **** isn't the most productive in the long-term, but Im not a fan of making prison's just a temporary motel. Throw em a book. Let them take classes. Teach them a skill. THAT will actually help in contributing to their turnaround.

Agamemnon · 01-14-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

I dunno, i tend to think TV is a form of luxury, and luxuries should be kept to a minimum in a prison system (unless perhaps used as a carrot). Obviously treating prisoners like **** isn't the most productive in the long-term, but Im not a fan of making prison's just a temporary motel. Throw em a book. Let them take classes. Teach them a skill. THAT will actually help in contributing to their turnaround.

I wouldn't be surprised if its just the system being lazy about rehabilitation. Its probably easier and cheaper just to sit them in front of the tube than to hire instructors, create programs... teach many to read. We tend to think of it as a luxury, but maybe providing them with tv is penalizing them in the long run.

RougeUnderoos · 01-14-2006, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Table 5

I dunno, i tend to think TV is a form of luxury, and luxuries should be kept to a minimum in a prison system (unless perhaps used as a carrot). Obviously treating prisoners like **** isn't the most productive in the long-term, but Im not a fan of making prison's just a temporary motel. Throw em a book. Let them take classes. Teach them a skill. THAT will actually help in contributing to their turnaround.

They aren't going to read and take classes for 16 hours a day though. I don't think TV is a luxury. I don't know, maybe it is. It's a pretty cheap luxury though, compared to the alternatives. I wonder what a guard in a maximum security prison would say if you asked him if he wanted to get rid of tvs for the prisoners. My guess is "no". I haven't been inside for about 10 years but from what I remember, it's a nice peaceful distraction.

Canada 02 · 01-14-2006, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Don't let this thread influence your vote. It's just fear mongering from the spinmasters.

Forgive me for being more concerned about victims than the perpetrators of crimes. Miss Creba for example will never get to watch TV again, get a University education nor will she ever get to vote - things murderers, rapists and inside-traders are allowed to do.

Canada 02 · 01-14-2006, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

They aren't going to read and take classes for 16 hours a day though.

Funny you say that. While I have student debt up the yin yang, Karla Homolka has a Queens University education paid for by you and me.

RougeUnderoos · 01-14-2006, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Funny you say that. While I have student debt up the yin yang, Karla Homolka has a Queens University education paid for by you and me.

I'm no stranger to student debt myself, and I don't like that Karla Homolka has a free degree, but what do you suggest they do with them while they are inside? You don't seem to want them to have TVs or education. It may seem expensive (and probably is) to educate these people and make them at least slightly comfortable, to try to improve their lives, but it's cheaper in the long run. Send some guy into a concrete bunker for 5 years and have him twiddle his thumbs and stare at the wall and you've got a much bigger problem when he gets out than you would have if he learned something or at least was treated like a human being during that time.

Jayems · 01-14-2006, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I'm no stranger to student debt myself, and I don't like that Karla Homolka has a free degree, but what do you suggest they do with them while they are inside? You don't seem to want them to have TVs or education. It may seem expensive (and probably is) to educate these people and make them at least slightly comfortable, to try to improve their lives, but it's cheaper in the long run. Send some guy into a concrete bunker for 5 years and have him twiddle his thumbs and stare at the wall and you've got a much bigger problem when he gets out than you would have if he learned something or at least was treated like a human being during that time.

I agree with you that they shouldnt have small things taken away, like TV. They watch TV for hours and hours... whatever... God knows if i ever was sent to jail i'd want that.

As far as i know, Calgary Remand centre, where people can stay for years awaiting sentencing, don't have TV's... built in radios to the cell, and I think they are in lock down sometimes 23 hours a day. Thats why 1 days counts as 2 towards your sentence there.

Remember that prison somewhere in the lower mainland BC that had the golf course? Thats just obscene.

There are a lot of inmates that will be rehabilitated, but some won't. its a fact and they will re-offend. At least fixing some is better than none at all.

Im all for taking career criminals rights away... maybe one day they'll learn. Or at least take advantage of some of the great opportunites that are available to them.

Jayems · 01-14-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Funny you say that. While I have student debt up the yin yang, Karla Homolka has a Queens University education paid for by you and me.

Yeah, while they may have got free school.. they have big bubba up the yin yang

Canada 02 · 01-14-2006, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

what do you suggest they do with them while they are inside?

Call me a heartless conservative, but frankly, I don't care. I am more concerned about the rights of 35 million freedom-loving Canadians than the 35 thousand criminals who make a mockery of our way of life

Jayems · 01-14-2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Call me a heartless conservative, but frankly, I don't care. I am more concerned about the rights of 35 million freedom-loving Canadians than the 35 thousand criminals who make a mockery of our way of life

I never thought I'd say this.. but social circumstances are responsible for some social problems.... ugh that sickens me to say it..

But I do agree that there are people who abuse systems. Like health-care for example.

Homeless people cost the healthsystem millions of dollars each year, because they get plastered, lie in the middle of a street, and know that they will get taken to the hospital where they can't be refused. They'll have a warm place to stay, get fed, leave, repeat that evening.

Its $350 in ambulance fees alone.. think they will pay that? Think they have health care? Who pays the doctor fees?

Does it not bother you, that while you sit in an emergency room for 8 hours, that at any given time, these people MUST be taken in because of alcohol abuse, or drugs? And these aren't people who are a 1 off.. they do it every single night... and is a huge contributing factor to the state of hospital wait times.

There will always been deserving citizens, but always a handfull of degenerates who abuse the system at the cost of millions and millions.

RougeUnderoos · 01-14-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canada 02

Call me a heartless conservative, but frankly, I don't care. I am more concerned about the rights of 35 million freedom-loving Canadians than the 35 thousand criminals who make a mockery of our way of life

It's an easy concept -- treating criminals really badly is really bad for all of us. It means more crime and violence for everybody. Treating them well means less crime and violence for all of us. I'd prefer less.

Canada 02 · 01-14-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It's an easy concept -- treating criminals really badly is really bad for all of us. It means more crime and violence for everybody. Treating them well means less crime and violence for all of us. I'd prefer less.

First, we clearly do NOT treat criminals badly - we treat them very well. Secondly, I'm not a criminologist. I have no idea what effect the method of punishment has on the amount of crime that is perpetrated - I doubt it is such an 'easy concept'

Ace · 01-14-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

It's an easy concept -- treating criminals really badly is really bad for all of us. It means more crime and violence for everybody. Treating them well means less crime and violence for all of us. I'd prefer less.

WHAT!!??

How so? what kind of a deterrent is treating criminals well. Maybe it they we're treated a little more like, uh, i don't know, CRIMINALS, some of them might think again about committing these crimes.