Teams with dead money

[ColoradoFlamesFan]

I was thinking about the idea of Smith being paid by AZ to play for Calgary. Since it’s Saturday and, well, no hockey, I started looking on Cap Friendly and seeing what teams were paying players to play elsewhere and also how much $ they had buried.
While I didn’t use any type of scientific approach or did I truly calculate the total dollars held it was interesting to see some of the retained salary and the term some teams are still responsible for.
In my estimate Arizona and Edmonton lead the pack. Roughly $5m each
Toronto might be the real winner (loser) when you take into consideration their mischievous LTIR deals (I forgot they still pay Kessel $1.2m to win cups with Pittsburg).
I thought it might inspire some conversation on a boring night

[dirk diggler]

why Ottawa didnt insist that Toronto pay some of Phaneufs outrageous salary is beyond me

[savemedrzaius]

Leafs are still paying 1.3 million a year for Tim Gleason. Oh the wonder days of Burke and Nonis.

[ColoradoFlamesFan]

Maybe someone else can answer this question; with a team like Philly that has Bryzgalov on their sheet at zero $ till 2024, does he count against the 50 contract limit?
Or, why is he there at zero?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ColoradoFlamesFan

Maybe someone else can answer this question; with a team like Philly that has Bryzgalov on their sheet at zero $ till 2024, does he count against the 50 contract limit?
Or, why is he there at zero?

Compliance buy out from the end of the last lock out.

Doesn't count as a contract.

[Hockey Fan #751]

You can't have a thread like this without mentioning that the Islanders still have to pay Rick DiPietro $1.5 million per season from now until 2029. They just stopped paying for Alexei Yashin several years ago.

[N-E-B]

Rick DiPietro has the best gig on earth. 1.5 mil/year to do literally nothing. Obviously he had to work very hard to earn that contract, and he would likely rather be playing than not, but that's a pretty good consolation prize.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

why Ottawa didnt insist that Toronto pay some of Phaneufs outrageous salary is beyond me

For all intents and purposes, they did. There was a lot of dead salary going back to Toronto in that deal.

Ottawa is a budget team, not a cap team, so they care more about actual money. Phaneuf's contract was frontloaded, so they were already paying less for him.

But Cowen was complete dead space as a healthy scratch and a 4.5M price tag. Buying him out was an issue and not a clear cut solution given his injury. Although, in the end the arbitrator sided with Toronto and he was able to be bought out.

Greening was and is an AHL player that was paid over 3M to play for the Marlies.

Michalek was injured making 4M a year.

Those three players combined for less than 50 games with the Maple Leafs but the Leafs paid well over 10M to them.

It doesn't show up on Capfriendly as salary retention, but when you move close to $15,000,000.00++ of dead or near-dead cap space in a trade, the other team is taking on salary...

[ColoradoFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

You can't have a thread like this without mentioning that the Islanders still have to pay Rick DiPietro $1.5 million per season from now until 2029. They just stopped paying for Alexei Yashin several years ago.

You're right, and Garth Snow still has a job after Rick's contract. I think Snow just got an extension too.
Funny how some of the worst run clubs have so many of these "deals".
I can understand that a few teams work take on a contact for trade purpose, and periodically you make a back move and need to solve it, but some clubs appear to have this as their SOP (I'm looking at you nogoodville)
I wish I had a way to look at teams; to who, and how much they are still paying for management positions

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by ColoradoFlamesFan

You're right, and Garth Snow still has a job after Rick's contract. I think Snow just got an extension too.

In Snow's defense, I don't think he had much to do with that contract, it was all Wang. I'm pretty sure going along with it is why Snow got the job in the first place.

[Erick Estrada]

Most NHL GM's aren't very good at their jobs. If these guys were working for non-sports multimillion dollar corporations they would have been fired long ago. Every year we get to see NHL GM's trip over themselves to sign the next non-elite player like David Clarkson, Brooks Orpik, Loui Eriksson, Matt Moulson, David Backes, etc to a franchise crippling long term contract that will probably lead to buyout. Even Treliving who we consider a smart GM was not immune to the silliness as the Brouwer contract was bad the day it was signed and has turned out even worse than anticipated. They just can't help themselves as it seems like they fool themselves into thinking that average players on the other side of their prime years are the missing link for their franchise to fill a need. Unfortunately most of these deals looked bad on day one and the players have done nothing to change that. I get that most GM's aren't thinking five years down the road because if they don't win they won't be around by then but some of these players aren't that good in the first place so if anything these contracts accelerate the demise of the GM.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Most NHL GM's aren't very good at their jobs. If these guys were working for non-sports multimillion dollar corporations they would have been fired long ago. Every year we get to see NHL GM's trip over themselves to sign the next non-elite player like David Clarkson, Brooks Orpik, Loui Eriksson, Matt Moulson, David Backes, etc to a franchise crippling long term contract that will probably lead to buyout. Even Treliving who we consider a smart GM was not immune to the silliness as the Brouwer contract was bad the day it was signed and has turned out even worse than anticipated. They just can't help themselves as it seems like they fool themselves into thinking that average players on the other side of their prime years are the missing link for their franchise to fill a need. Unfortunately most of these deals looked bad on day one and the players have done nothing to change that. I get that most GM's aren't thinking five years down the road because if they don't win they won't be around by then but some of these players aren't that good in the first place so if anything these contracts accelerate the demise of the GM.

Agreed, there are many contracts signed that an average fan can say is a horrible contract the day it is signed, the Semin deal being a notable one. There are times I think I could be a GM, but that's likely not true but some of their mistakes are so obvious from day one

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

For all intents and purposes, they did. There was a lot of dead salary going back to Toronto in that deal.

Ottawa is a budget team, not a cap team, so they care more about actual money. Phaneuf's contract was frontloaded, so they were already paying less for him.

But Cowen was complete dead space as a healthy scratch and a 4.5M price tag. Buying him out was an issue and not a clear cut solution given his injury. Although, in the end the arbitrator sided with Toronto and he was able to be bought out.

Greening was and is an AHL player that was paid over 3M to play for the Marlies.

Michalek was injured making 4M a year.

Those three players combined for less than 50 games with the Maple Leafs but the Leafs paid well over 10M to them.

It doesn't show up on Capfriendly as salary retention, but when you move close to $15,000,000.00++ of dead or near-dead cap space in a trade, the other team is taking on salary...

I knew the Leafs took on salary but didn't know it was that much. that all makes sense.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by dirk diggler

I knew the Leafs took on salary but didn't know it was that much. that all makes sense.

And it shows that even in the cap era there is still a big advantage to being a rich team. Being able to spend to the cap is one thing, being able to buy your way out of cap trouble is basically what the Leafs are able to do better than anybody.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ColoradoFlamesFan

You're right, and Garth Snow still has a job after Rick's contract. I think Snow just got an extension too...

Garth Snow for all his early warts has earned himself a lot of latitude the past several years with some excellent trades and very savvy draft selections.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Garth Snow for all his early warts has earned himself a lot of latitude the past several years with some excellent trades and very savvy draft selections.

Most of his excellent trades have come at the expense of the two Alberta teams. He's totally fleeced Edmonton in particular. The Ladd contract is terrible.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

You can't have a thread like this without mentioning that the Islanders still have to pay Rick DiPietro $1.5 million per season from now until 2029. They just stopped paying for Alexei Yashin several years ago.

Will they actually be paying that amount of cash to him every year, or is that just cap accounting and they paid him a lump sum a while back?

[savardandjokinen]

The Leafs have something called "Robidas Island" where I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) they're still paying Robidas, Horton, Lupul and maybe Clarkson (iirc he got traded though).

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

The Leafs have something called "Robidas Island" where I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) they're still paying Robidas, Horton, Lupul and maybe Clarkson (iirc he got traded though).

They traded Clarkson for Horton.

Horton's contract was uninsured, so the BJs were paying a lot of money to have a player not play for them, even though he was on LTIR. They cared about the $ spent rather than the cap hit.

The Leafs were paying Clarkson the same, but didn't want his cap hit. So they traded him for Horton. Clarkson could at least play when he was healthy, which even if he isn't very good, is still better than having a guy not play at all for the same $. But considering how much Clarkson was hurt, and his contract was insured, the BJs saved money (even if Clarkson was playing, they'd have saved something like $2M with difference in contracts + the need to fill a roster spot).

So it basically turned into

To Toronto: Cap Relief
To Columbus: Salary Relief

Then Columbus got bailed out further with Clarkson going to Vegas.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Most NHL GM's aren't very good at their jobs. If these guys were working for non-sports multimillion dollar corporations they would have been fired long ago. Every year we get to see NHL GM's trip over themselves to sign the next non-elite player like David Clarkson, Brooks Orpik, Loui Eriksson, Matt Moulson, David Backes, etc to a franchise crippling long term contract that will probably lead to buyout. Even Treliving who we consider a smart GM was not immune to the silliness as the Brouwer contract was bad the day it was signed and has turned out even worse than anticipated. They just can't help themselves as it seems like they fool themselves into thinking that average players on the other side of their prime years are the missing link for their franchise to fill a need. Unfortunately most of these deals looked bad on day one and the players have done nothing to change that. I get that most GM's aren't thinking five years down the road because if they don't win they won't be around by then but some of these players aren't that good in the first place so if anything these contracts accelerate the demise of the GM.

You really can't compare the corporate world to pro sports.

If I had an annual budget to spend and fixed the cost of the top performers in our line of work and had limited access to other talert and no incentive to not use excess budget...I'd likely overpay mediocre performers as well.

Let's be honest Troy Brouwer and Matt Stajan's salary comboned can buy Nathan McKinnon...but there is no way the Flames can exchange that money to get him. Money is a less valued commodity in the wored of the NHL than other chips. Essentially the Flames likely would be exchanging them for the same thing just different.

The NHL is a bizarre world where most top talent is restricted in terms of earning or voluntarily declines to take its share so as to allow lesser talent to get it.

I think the system has something to do with making the GM's seem stupid. In my world I can chose to not spend all my budget, and if the goals of the organization are still met those who helped do so earn a share of that in bonuses. In the NHL world...that saved money just dissappears. So why not overpay someone who can add just a bit more? I'd hesitate pay a premium salary to middling talent bring in a minor bump in production. I'd rather reward my top performers. But that's not an option for NHL GM's.