buying RV from dealership?

[Tiger]

I've read a lot of the RV threads but I didn't really see anything on actually buying the RV.

Does anybody have any tips on negotiations with the dealerships? how much lower you can get from MSRP? What to try to get added in if possible?

Any previous successes others had would be helpful.

Thanks

[Simon96Taco]

I think Pylon is the guy you want to talk to, if I'm not mistaken he worked in RV sales and could possibly shed some light...

[pylon]

Personally I'd buy a couple years old used. Most RVs are purchased with a warranty and those are transferable. Also it helps you not fall into the mortgage trap with them on a 20 year loan. Banks won't finance them that long, unless purchased through a dealer. It was one of the main reasons I couldn't stay in that business. I was enabling people to make terrible financial decisions. I'm not painting with a wide brush, but there was a very large portion of the clients buying RVs that had no understanding of what they were signing, and how the interest worked. You had the odd client that was financially savvy, but most buyers were labourers, trades people etc, with very little knowledge of finances. It didn't feel right a lot of times.

With cars, which for most people are a necessity, I can justify loans. It gets you safe, modern transportation with a warranty in most cases. But toys, like bikes, RVs boats.... I believe those should be outright cash purchases.

Also part two of what bugged me about that business. The best RV out there, is still a massive piece of crap assembled by some Amish guy in Indiana with a bucket of glue and a nail gun, that just spent the first half of his day plowing a field. The quality is atrocious, on every single one of them. Like the worst car ever made, is built to Space age specifications in comparison to a trailer. And the appliances and electronics probably don't even meet North Korean quality standards. Warranties are an absolute must with RVs. So new or used, you are buying a massive piece of crap, and in that case, I would recommend used crap. At least it's cheaper, and if it's like most trailers out there it was bought, and hardly ever used. Just make sure it's inspected for busted pipes and tanks due to not being winterized.

That's my advice.

[btimbit]

+1 for buying used.

Like pylon touched on, one important thing about RV ownership, get used to be always having something broken and needing to be fixed. Even new

[Tiger]

Let's say 'hypothetically' the wife does want used and that we turned down a great deal on exactly what we were looking for in a two year old trailer. Now it is dealership or bust. What would you do if you are stuck buying from a dealer.

I don't want to use their financing or anything like that.

[Northendzone]

^ to me I would figure out what price I want to/can afford to pay, what features or options are must haves and then head on out there and look around.

one other thought, do you fully understand the cost of ownership of one of these things - extra gas, storage, insurance, camping fees etc? I was wondering if there is any type of option to rent one for a summer to see if you really like it.


I would have to think that in the calgary area that you will find competitive pricing these days, but what do I know as I am not in the market for a trailer, nor have I ever owned one

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Tiger

Let's say 'hypothetically' the wife does want used and that we turned down a great deal on exactly what we were looking for in a two year old trailer. Now it is dealership or bust. What would you do if you are stuck buying from a dealer.

I don't want to use their financing or anything like that.

We bought brand new, my father and mother in law bought brand new. If you find a model you like just make sure you are comfortable with the price you are paying, if you think it's too much don't be afraid to walk away.

Like Pylon said, all RV's are crap. You would think they would build them better when they are being hauled around all the time, but no. Thankfully I have only had mostly minor issues (moulding needing to be re-glued/nailed, plastic shavings in the water pump) but the one that was really bad was the fresh water tank was not properly bolted in and one side dropped down and was resting on the axle. Had this fallen out while I was driving on the highway I could have killed someone.

I would seriously consider getting the extended warranty. I know people say they are usually a scam, but with RV's it could pay off.

As for dealer financing, they gave use some ridiculous deal at the time. I believe it was a 20 year loan with 0% interest for 2 years. We took it, and whatever was left on the loan after 2 years we switched over to a line of credit and paid the rest off.

Like Pylon said, please please please don't be happy with the mortgage type loan they offer you. If they offer you 0% take it, but make sure you know if there are any early repayment penalties, and make sure if there is a balance left when the real interest kicks in that you change it over to a line of credit or something. Do not pay interest on it for 20 years, RV's aren't going to last 20 years.

Edit: Oh and another thing. Have you ever towed a trailer before? Do you have a tow vehicle that can handle the RV you are looking at? Dealerships give you 0 info on how to actually tow the trailer and they always tell you your vehicle can handle it. They help you hook it up and then send you on your way. It's scary how little information or training they give people who have never towed a trailer before.

[Scoopdogg]

Having just purchased a trailer in the fall you need to be aware of all the costs as Northendzone has pointed out. Storage, extra gas, insurance, stocking the rv with all the necessities (dishes, bedding, coffee pot, etc) plus all the other camping gear you need to purchase. I must say it's been a little more expensive than I first thought as when you're looking for an RV you have tunnel vision on the cost of the unit, and not everything else that goes along with it.

We haven't used it yet since we bought it in the fall but I'm super stoked to get out and do some camping. Once we get use to it and see the enjoyment the kids and us will get our of it we'll never look back at regretting the purchase.

[Ace]

Originally Posted by Tiger

Let's say 'hypothetically' the wife does want used and that we turned down a great deal on exactly what we were looking for in a two year old trailer. Now it is dealership or bust. What would you do if you are stuck buying from a dealer.



I don't want to use their financing or anything like that.

I bought new from Sunridge RV about 4 years ago. Fortunately for me they had a service guy there that absolutely cared about customers, and in-spite of his company found ways to get things done. If you read their reviews just before they went under you will see what a headache dealer service can turn into.

Here's the main issue of buying new, you're going to spend the first 2 years doing warranty work. So the thing you'll want to note is that most RV's come with only a one year front to back warranty, so that first year is crucial. In my case I was like Pylon and saw this as a cash purchase, and was able to convince the dealer to put it all on my credit card. This allowed me to actually use the credit card for a free year of extended warranty (I had to fight a bit with the insurance company to convince them that it qualified, but turns out only things with an engine are excluded on my card, and we have a travel trailer).

So this is eyes wide open: buying new is like work, you have to haul your big RV back and forth for at least the first two years getting service. This is where buying two years old can be a huge plus: someone else did all that labour for you...but do you know if they really did? I often tell people now, my 4 year old RV is more valuable now than when I bought it, because we diligently had everything fixed and added things your going to want like solar, 3m, better batteries, good shower head, etc.

So my advise if you buy new: pick your RV 100% based on the dealership, don't even think unit or floor plan until you see what the dealership you choose has. I got lucky, had I bought from Sunridge 2 years later I would have been screwed.

For what it's worth if I bought again I'd buy from Bucars, loved the vibe there, and service capacity seemed top notch. Also Bucars inventory comes with two year standard front to back warranties. But shop around and only focus on the service department...heck even get in writing that they will service your unit within 4 weeks of any request or something.

[HockeyIlliterate]

I feel compelled to disagree with the "all RVs are crap" line.

Stick-built RVs may be, but the workmanship on the fiberglass models (Escape, in particular) is pretty good, and you buy the RV from the factory direct, so it can be customized (to a certain degree) to your own wishes. Escapes are built in B.C., and the owners are very approachable and helpful. Plus, the resale on fiberglass RVs is pretty good---much better than anything I've seen out of Elkhart County, Indiana.

ETA: I have no association with Escape.

[ken0042]

While I admit the build quality on RVs is pretty bad, I haven't had too many issues with my trailer. I would tend to buy new again if I was buying a new one. Some tips I can offer:

- Make sure you have enough sleeping space without using the dinette as an extra bed. Keep in mind your kids' age; will your 12 year old boy be too big for that bed in 4 years? Will your 8 year old want to bring a friend along for camping trips?
- Look closely at the holding tank capacity. My black tank is bigger than my grey; and we put twice as much water into the grey tank.
- Furnace noise. I have a small trailer so this can't be helped, but the furnace is too close to the beds.
- Don't look at the dry weight of the trailer for towing capacity. From the dealer the trailer will weigh 200-500 pounds more; plus all of your stuff. I am easily 1000 pounds over my dry weight; and with a small trailer we don't have as much stuff as we could.
- With weight in mind- make sure you are at least 10-20% below your vehicle's towing capacity.
- Get a weight distribution hitch. Saves fuel, easier to tow, and less likely to have the trailer wagging your vehicle.
- Price out trailers in the States, and use a fair exchange rate to see what a "good" price is. This is also peak buying season, so it's harder to make a deal. I bought my trailer in October and was able to negotiate a good deal.

I'm sure I'll have more to add later.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

I feel compelled to disagree with the "all RVs are crap" line.

Stick-built RVs may be, but the workmanship on the fiberglass models (Escape, in particular) is pretty good, and you buy the RV from the factory direct, so it can be customized (to a certain degree) to your own wishes. Escapes are built in B.C., and the owners are very approachable and helpful. Plus, the resale on fiberglass RVs is pretty good---much better than anything I've seen out of Elkhart County, Indiana.

ETA: I have no association with Escape.

With cars, you are dealing with products built by million dollar robots in billion dollar factories with laser guided precision designed by some of the best engineers on the planet.

With RV's you are dealing with underpaid laborers working in make shift factories, with terrible quality control. Even if the actual structure is built well, you are subject to very spotty quality control for the appliances, circuit boards, electrical components, and HVAC controls, plumbing etc.

I own a Rockwood myself, which is considered a top-tier brand because I love camping. But I LMAO at some of the 'engineering' decisions I see on it.

[Table 5]

Ha yeah honestly that's my biggest gripe with RVs and campers that are available in North America...they not look like they were designed by your great grandma (honestly, why does an RV need wallpaper and window ornaments?), the vast majority of them feel like they were build by a high school dropout who happened to have a saw that day. The ones that have some design and QC put into them (such as Winnebago or Leisure Vans) are quite a bit more expensive...but at least they seem to be operating in this century.

Personally though, I still pine for the they when we could get a VW California or a Marco Polo. I would love to take my kids in road trips in one of those.

[dino7c]

I kinda like that brand new RV's look like grandmas house...reminds me of my childhood. Buying new seems like a terrible idea though, you can get the same thing for 1/3 the price and its been used like two times.

Find a new wife?

[Top Shelf]

What are some good brands to stick with? Any ones to avoid? I thought each manufacturer has different lines with different quality

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Tiger

Let's say 'hypothetically' the wife does want used and that we turned down a great deal on exactly what we were looking for in a two year old trailer. Now it is dealership or bust. What would you do if you are stuck buying from a dealer.

I don't want to use their financing or anything like that.

Ugh tough scenario. We bought a lightly used 2 year old RV last year, which is identical to the new model but cost us $10K less than the best price we could find at a dealership. New 6 volt batteries and an equalizing hitch to boot.

While the dollar was better, a good friend of mine ordered an RV from the factory and had it shipped to the boarder. Is a top end toy hauler and he says he saved around $15K compared to local prices, at at that time.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Top Shelf

What are some good brands to stick with? Any ones to avoid? I thought each manufacturer has different lines with different quality

We heard from a few sources that Jayco is generally ok.

We were looking for a Rockwood, but settled on a Forest River model which appears to be absolutely identical except for the exterior stickers. It is lightly built but no glaring issues so far.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by ken0042

While I admit the build quality on RVs is pretty bad, I haven't had too many issues with my trailer. I would tend to buy new again if I was buying a new one. Some tips I can offer:

- Make sure you have enough sleeping space without using the dinette as an extra bed. Keep in mind your kids' age; will your 12 year old boy be too big for that bed in 4 years? Will your 8 year old want to bring a friend along for camping trips?
- Look closely at the holding tank capacity. My black tank is bigger than my grey; and we put twice as much water into the grey tank.
- Furnace noise. I have a small trailer so this can't be helped, but the furnace is too close to the beds.
- Don't look at the dry weight of the trailer for towing capacity. From the dealer the trailer will weigh 200-500 pounds more; plus all of your stuff. I am easily 1000 pounds over my dry weight; and with a small trailer we don't have as much stuff as we could.
- With weight in mind- make sure you are at least 10-20% below your vehicle's towing capacity.
- Get a weight distribution hitch. Saves fuel, easier to tow, and less likely to have the trailer wagging your vehicle.
- Price out trailers in the States, and use a fair exchange rate to see what a "good" price is. This is also peak buying season, so it's harder to make a deal. I bought my trailer in October and was able to negotiate a good deal.

I'm sure I'll have more to add later.

I am going to put in my 2 cents.

Be careful when looking at Towing Capacity as it may not be the limiting factor. In my experience it is almost always Payload. Granted I am towing with a half ton, so this may be less of an issue if you have a "real" truck.

Make sure you are using the right towing and payload capacities, as the numbers mentioned in all of the brochures and marketing are for stripped down base model, regular cab long boxes, not a fully loaded supercrew. The payload capacity of your truck is listed on a yellow sticker on the driver side door frame on trucks newer than 2005.

If you are towing with a half ton, expect to have a payload of less than 1700lbs (sometimes as low as 1300lbs) depending on trim level. which means by the time you add
-The driver
-Your passengers (with infant/child seats, booster seats, etc.)
-Any food, snacks and drinks
-Any games, toys, activities and diaper bags for the kids
-Guides, maps, travel directories
-Firewood, generators, camping chairs, tables, and other supplies
-And, of course- your hitch
and cargo you might be down to less than 700-1000lbs of available payload

Trailer Pin Weight for a bumper pull will be between 12%-15% of the towing weight (not dry weight) of the trailer. If you are towing a trailer that has a weight when loaded of 8000lbs, your tongue weight could be anywhere from 960lbs - 1200lbs. so you are overweight on a truck that has a "tow capacity" of 11,100lbs (Ford F150)


Never trust the dealer when they tell you your truck can handle a trailer. I know a few folks who found themselves buying new trucks when they were oversold a trailer.

Background: I tow with a 2013 F150 with Max Tow and the Payload Package (rare). I tow a 7000lb trailer. The truck handles it and I have brought it to the scales and all specs are inline with the truck capacities (GCVWR, RAWR, GVWR). With my previous truck I was 20% over on the rear axel towing with a 2010 F150 with the Max Tow Package (no payload package)

[woob]

Originally Posted by gasman

I am going to put in my 2 cents.<snip>

Great info, thanks for the insight. Was your trailer 7000lbs loaded? Any sites you recommend for calculation assistance, once you've gathered all the relevant numbers from your truck and trailer?

[gasman]

Originally Posted by woob

Great info, thanks for the insight. Was your trailer 7000lbs loaded? Any sites you recommend for calculation assistance, once you've gathered all the relevant numbers from your truck and trailer?

Yes that was a fully loaded weight, including water which I don't normally tow long distances with. The dry weight of my trailer is in the high 5000's somewhere.

I don't have a good reference for a site to do the calculations, best advice is the following steps:

-load up your truck with all of the gear/family that you would normally go camping with (that you would put in your truck).
-head over to the scales and get a good baseline. Any flying J has a CAT scale that will get you what you need.
-Subtract your measured weight from the GVWR on your door and that will give you a good idea of how much payload you have left.
-take that number and divide by 0.12-0.15, that will put you in the ballpark for a max trailer weight.

I would look at the GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) of the trailer and compare it to the number that you calculated as a rough idea of if a trailer is too big.

If you are really close, using the GVWR of the trailer is pretty conservative, chances are you won't load your trailer to the max it will carry, so you have some wiggle room.