[CP Story] What Treliving Should Do

[Bingo]

http://www.calgarypuck.com/2016/02/h...ing-should-do/

Ok ... let me have it!

[Goodlad]

I actually agree.....with everything in that article. It's like you typed up my thoughts for me.

[Huntingwhale]

Good write up. Only question I have is regarding point #3 (Hudler).

It’s been a tough season for Jiri Hudler with very little known as to why. It could be injuries, it could be a lack of foot speed in an ever more quick NHL. It could be the distraction of his imminent free agency or it could be some of the attitude issues suggested by some in the media this season. But the bottom line is would you want any of a hurt, slow, distracted or moping player? None of those instances scream the need to negotiate a new contract. His time in Calgary is done.

Other then an 'insider' post that showed up on CP a couple months back, I haven't heard any ramblings about Hudler's supposed attitude problems. I thought he's been a fine leader for the club since the day he signed. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But I'm curious as to when it was said he supposedly had an attitude issue?

Other then that I agree with most of the points. I think the team has to cut ties with Hudler via hopefully a trade. I'd like to see Russel moved for some decent picks, but I would be onboard if the team brought him back for cheap.

I'm glad I'm not Trevling as I think he has some tough choices ahead. I'm heavily leaning towards the Flames being sellers and I think Treliving feels the same.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I doubt the Wings would have any interest in Wideman. Other than that, and Russell, I think you really put together a good approach to the deadline.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by New Era

I doubt the Wings would have any interest in Wideman. Other than that, and Russell, I think you really put together a good approach to the deadline.

The Red Wings may not have interest in Wideman but....... the Red Wings have an interest in moving Howard. Therefore there is potential interest in Wideman. Its not bad reasoning at all.

[dissentowner]

Sorry but I seriously disagree with some of your points. Jimmy Howard is not the answer and will just saddle us with another bad contract, there is a reason why the Wings want to shuttle him out of town and it isn't because Mrazek is a top tier goalie. I would rather bring Ramo back as I think he is a better goalie who will come cheaper or look at something else, a younger goalie with potential still like a Raanta. I have no idea why you would list Michael Backlund as a must keep but that is my opinion. Every game when we get scored on there is Backlund standing around picking his butt. There is Backlund turning over the puck again. There is Backlund killing another offensive play. In your article I would switch Backlund with Stajan. Stajan gives his all, is a better PK, and doesn't create bad turnovers. I actually think if Stajan were given a more offensive chance like Backlund keeps getting he would certainly produce more than Backlund does. I just don't get the love for the guy, he has regressed significantly imo since his one decent year a few seasons ago when he was spoon fed top line ice time. Cut bait with him before he has next to no value.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Good write up. Only question I have is regarding point #3 (Hudler).

Other then an 'insider' post that showed up on CP a couple months back, I haven't heard any ramblings about Hudler's supposed attitude problems. I thought he's been a fine leader for the club since the day he signed. Obviously we don't know what goes on behind closed doors. But I'm curious as to when it was said he supposedly had an attitude issue?

Well let's say that you had a very good attitude and relationship towards the Flames as Hudler. At the end of the day, they brought in good players that got paid... enough so that Hudler can't realistically talk contracts with Treliving without taking some sort of massive pay hike, with Johnny and Mony's extensions looming on the horizon.

So Hudler knows - whatever his current attitude is - that staying in Calgary is not realistic. If he wants out, meh. But I feel like he wants to stay. I'm sure he likes it here and being around the guys - but if you knew that you were gonna be separated from your buddies at the end of the day and your family made to pack up and move their lives elsewhere anyway, that's gotta be emotionally tasking.

[druetetective]

I posted this in the goalie market thread 3 mins before you published this article lol:

I listen to a lot of wings radio since I'm in the area. They constantly talk about trading Howard, with Calgary as the most mentioned destination.

The most realistic trade I've heard them propose was Howard+1 of Jurco/Sheahan for Wideman and a mid round pick.

They admit both have little to negative value. They think since Howard is still a useful NHL player that makes up for his extra term. Sheahan/Jurco they think would be worth a 2nd/3rd alone so swapping one for a Flames 5th gives CGY extra incentive. They were even willing to eat 250-500k in year 2/3 due to SM/JG/SB contracts.

I was blown away by how in tuned to the Flames they were as Americans. Another DET station also wanted Wideman but were willing to give up a bunch of assets lol.

[chubeyr1]

Good write up!

As for goalies? Not a huge fan of Howard. Would be nice to offload Widemans contract but taking on an additional 2 years of Howard is risky at that cap hit. Right now we have a 4.5 million dollar backup I'm scared we might take on a 5.2 million dollar backup in that trade.

Russell I trade without a doubt. We need the cap space and can no longer afford to have 3 plus million dollar dmen as the 7th dman. Yet if we get rid of Smid or Engelland I have no issues signing Russell. Easier said than done and I think Russell can get us a good return.

If your name is not Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, or Frolik you should not be safe from trade winds. No one besides those mentioned have earned their roster spot for next season. That includes Ferland and Backund. Not saying we give players away but when the phone rings we listen.

[GranteedEV]

Agree with most, but I'm gonna disagree with you on some points:

1) Totally do not want Jimmy Howard. At all. Small-ish 31-year old with 3 years @ 5.2M, whose last three season save percentages have been .910, .910, and .908? What part of that isn't an anchor? I'd much rather just be patient and not commit term unless something falls into our lap. Even if a guy like Ramo isn't a star goalie, he's a guy you can win with if the team in front is strong, that's no different from Howard or even Brian Elliot. I'd even be a lot more interested in going after a guy like Neuvirth TBQH (last 3 season save percentages .921, .914, .933 on three very different teams)

My main point is a) Don't Commit Big Money Long Term and b)you don't want a star goalie carrying a bad team to the playoffs, that never works out. You want a good team with one good goalie and room for a prospect like Gillies to snatch the #1 without contract concerns. Ramo is good enough to be that. He's not the reason this team will miss the playoffs, even if he's not the reason we'll make them.

2) Russell over Hudler? I don't see that making any sense. If Hudler's value is down due to his poor season that's a buy-low scenario on a much better player than Kris Russell, because Hudler is a guy who even in this terrible season is one of our better producers (Hudler is 0.585 PPG while Monahan is 0.604 PPG) Have we forgotten how Hudler pretty much single-handedly willed this team to the playoffs last year by being the best winger in the entire league in March? Hudler may never repeat his 2014-15 season but he's as safe a bet as any if the term and cost is reasonable. Re-signing Russell, even at the suggested 11/3 is more risky as he's not a point producer (never has been) nor is he known for underlying stats.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

If your name is not Gaudreau, Monahan, Bennett, Gio, Brodie, Hamilton, or Frolik you should not be safe from trade winds. No one besides those mentioned have earned their roster spot for next season. That includes Ferland and Backund. Not saying we give players away but when the phone rings we listen.

This. Any player outside of those you listed should be on the table to be traded in the right deal. I don't personally believe teams are going to be overly interested in Ferland (nobody really cares about this guy outside of Calgary) so I don't see him being a guy traded but Backlund is the type of utility forward teams may look for and if you can use him in a package to get a goaltender then you do it as the team will need to find a starter and a backup goaltender.

I actually don't want Russell back in any capacity. It's time to get younger at the position and use the rebuild as time to break in some defensive prospects. Russell really isn't that great of a defenseman and paying him close to $4 million is simply bad management.

[belsarius]

I am in total agreement with the centers and I think they should be both done in tandem. Monahan does need to move away from Johnny, he needs space to continue to grow and not just be the set-up guy. Which brings in Bennett, who should be centering Johnny because then Johnny becomes the set-up guy as well as a scoring threat. If watching him and Hall showed anything it's that as deadly as Gaudreau is, he would be even better paired with a sniper.. and I think Bennett can be that guy.

[Strange Brew]

I love the thought that went into this. Thank you. I am a no on Howard simply because I don't see him as an upgrade in Ramo and I think he would be a lot more expensive. Would love to move Wideman and if you do, I suspect you are taking another contract back but I would want less term than Howard.

If by some miracle you are able to move Wideman then maybe you re-sign Russell. But I don't think Widemans moving and Russell is our best trade chip at the deadline. I'd like to see him moved. I see only the top 3 of the Flames current d corps here for the 2017/18 season. Not all the replacements are coming from within so a trade or signing will have to happen.

Agree with your thoughts on Hamilton. He needs to play more and be sheltered less. Let's see what we've got.

[Mister Yamoto]

No more Ramo after this year.

[Dion]

Ramo should be a last resort if another tender can't be found via a trade or free agency

[united]

Per War-On-Ice, of the 30 goalies who have played 4,500 minutes of 5-on-5 since the start of the 2013-14 season, Jimmy Howard ranks:
22/30 in high danger save %
17/30 in adjusted save %
17/30 in unadjusted save %

If you narrow it down further, to the start of last season, he ranks in the high-to-mid 20s in all 3 categories. Given his game collapsed after the lockout season and has been getting slowly worse, I don't think he's worth the risk. He's basically a more expensive Hiller/Ramo with longer term, and is in danger of dropping further. Really the Flames should have been in on Greiss or Neuvirth as an affordable stop-gap last off season, but that was missed. Now they are in a tough position with no clear options in free agency. Elliott since 2013 ranks? 15, 13, 9, respectively (2014: 15/9/11). I think if you're set on one of the two, he's the one. He is streaky, though.


As for Russell, it's been argued a ton already but the bottom line is while he is an elite shot-blocker, which saves a few goals a season compared to shot-avoiding (new term!) defencemen, he can't defend at an NHL level well enough to overcome that, in a top-four role at least. He has arguably the worst gap control in the National, and has a horrible first pass despite his mobility. To be honest, I'm not even sure I bring him back for $1M as a 6th/7th defenceman and for his alleged intangibles, which obviously isn't agreeable to him. $10-11M over 3 years is, in my opinion, a colossal mistake and over payment. I was surprised to read your direction there. Let a different team over value his shot-blocking ability relative to his all-round game, especially given his apparent popularity as a trade target.
Hero Chart:

Spoiler!

I definitely agree on Hudler, unless he really wants to stick around on a sweetheart deal.

Ramo, Raymond, Engelland, Smid, Bollig, also. They should flipped for any asset possible, although that seems unlikely. (Hey, Berra fetched a 2nd somehow, right?)

I like Jooris as a utility guy who can competently play any of the bottom six positions, has good work ethic, and has surprisingly good underlying numbers.
Colborne on the other hand should be dangled in front of an old school GM obsessed with size, IMO. At this point I see him as a poor man's post-lockout Michal Handzus. If you can get a Berra-esque over payment, why not.

[Vulcan]

Yeah, I don't want Howard but I don't know what else is out there and better either. I wouldn't mind if they re-sign Ramo and look for another young goalie to compete with Ortio and Poulin for the backup spot. We won't be going for gold next season anyways and who knows one of them may stand out.

I look at Russell as really a 5th or 6th defenceman and as such I wouldn't offer him more than $3M per. I like his moxie but his size just doesn't measure up to be relied upon as a top 4 on a real contender.

On another note, yeah Hudler is probably history but I'd probably take Jones back at maybe up to $2M per for one or two years. He's a stopgap for sure but he's got size and a bit of a physical game.

[druetetective]

What if we offer Hamilton for Mrazek +?(Mantha maybe)

Det wants a top pairing D BAD going forward. It would hurt to lose him but if we don't get a true #1 G can we really take the next step?

The Flames faith in Andersson/Hickey/Kylington would likely be the X-factor.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ Disagree. Detroit and Chicago cups did not come from rock star goalies. Rather from top tier D and some defensively elite centers. And serviceable goalies.

Many goalies perceived as elite and / or successful are overrated. Not bad, maybe even good, but overvalued.

[Alberta_Beef]

Moving Wideman out and bringing Howard in doesn't free up money for Russell in the slightest. If anything it makes our cap situation worse and with the term he has remaining that is a terrible idea. I would rather go after almost anyone else.