Affirmative action ending at US Colleges ?

[Knut]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#axzz2zgHZV0NE

The Supreme Court dealt another blow to affirmative action Tuesday, upholding the decision of Michigan voters — and by implication similar bans in California and six other states — to forbid the use of race as a factor in deciding who is admitted to state universities.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...#ixzz2zgIIApcp

Thoughts ?

I have never really been a big fan of affirmative action in colleges. I know it is a complex issues though.

[rubecube]

The court's majority has been steadily skeptical of admissions policies that evaluate students based on race. Although justices have not forbidden such practices, they had little trouble deciding that a state's voters could set a strict rule against "preferential treatment" based on race.

Haha seriously? Yes, let's the majority decide on issues relating to minority rights. That's always worked so well in the past.

[Knut]

^. I think the end goal here is to take race right out of the application process. That would be ideal.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Hesla

^. I think the end goal here is to take race right out of the application process. That would be ideal.

Yeah, I get that, but I think the fact remains that racial minorities still likely face a lot more obstacles in the education system than whites do. I did like the idea of considering economic status as opposed to race as that still taps into the realities of inner-city education whilst not explicitly citing race.

[an hero]

There's really two issues out of this..

First, the LA times opinion there is overboard. The court issue here is these are state amendments to their Constitutions. This is not an indictment against affirmative action by the courts.

Second, affirmative action is a joke. It is institutionalized discrimination in and of itself. Students should be selected by merit, not by race. I'm glad more US states are taking a stand against racism, and find it funny that it's considered racist to oppose race-based discrimination.

[Caged Great]

make it so that it's based off economic factors.

That way you're mostly getting the same effect, but without the "racism". Black people have had the short end of the stick, so allowing them to have preferential treatment is a good thing as it helps to elevate the entire community. Just have to find a better way of getting there is all.

[nik-]

Umm guys, didn't you know? They elected Obama, racism is over now.

[SebC]

Affirmative action: the belief that the solution to racism is more racism.

[Devils'Advocate]

Yes, because the alternative of ignoring the problem will make it go away.

From wikipedia:

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Yes, because the alternative of ignoring the problem will make it go away.

From wikipedia:

The overall issue is access to resources.

Minorities may have less overall but some are still rich. Affirmative action rewards rich minorities and doesn't address the underlying issues. Economic based affirmative action makes way more sense. The most economically oppressed minorities will proportionately gain the most from this.

[Devils'Advocate]

I'll buy that. So long as we are replacing affirmative action with programs that will by and large be helping minorities, then I'm okay with that. I'm just afraid that removing affirmative action will simply mean that the disadvantaged will STAY disadvantaged.

[FlamesAddiction]

What is that graph showing? There are no descriptions or headers.

A person should be judged on their talents and actions, not on race. People should be accepted without bias of any kind and if someone is accepted who can't pay for it, there should then be an economic affirmative action to see that they are able to attend university or college.

[taco.vidal]

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ate&id=9508925

LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- For the first time, more Latino than white students in California have been offered admission to UC schools this fall, officials said Friday.

[Tiger]

read malcolm gladwell's book "David and Goliath". It had some interesting points about affirmative action and how it may not actually be helping, and actually hurting people over all.

[GGG]

I like the idea of lowering admission standards for the economically disadvantaged. I think that is a better method of affirmative action then targeting race. However I don't think affirmative action is that bad.

One of the problems is that college admissions to a poor job at picking the best students SAT scores and Marks don't really paint a good picture of potential when so much of those numbers are based on the ability to access good prep courses and going to a school that bases its reputation on sending kids to good universities.

So if grades aren't the best indicator of success then we should be open to system that use something other than grades to determine admissions when it is clear that one group is being under represented by the grade/SAT based system. This is favouring one race over another but recognizing if our tools for evaluating and developing people were equal then equal amounts of all races and genders should be getting into school.

I disagree with people who describe affirmative action as reverse racism but then I am also okay with racial profiling at airports and using race as part of risk based assessments for things like insurance. Sometimes using race as an indicator of being disadvantaged or at a higher risk of heart disease is reasonable. It isn't racist to look at a dataset and think how can we improve even if one of the points in the dataset is race.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What is that graph showing? There are no descriptions or headers.

A person should be judged on their talents and actions, not on race. People should be accepted without bias of any kind and if someone is accepted who can't pay for it, there should then be an economic affirmative to see that they are able to attend university or college.

I was wondering what the graph was showing too.

Kids who grow up in poor, predominantly black urban communities in the US are at a tremendous disadvantage due to their schools being so bad, and not having the resources of an upper middle class, white suburb. There definitely is a need to allow those students who have overcome that disadvantage to attend college, even if there scores are not as high as some middle class students. Skin color, though, is a crappy determining factor. I assume black kids who grew up in decent middle class neighborhoods end up getting a lot of those spots. From my perspective of living in a state with real race and class issues, a black kid growing up in a middle class suburb is really not at any kind of disadvantage due to his skin color.

[Table 5]

Getting assistance into college should absolutely be about economic factors, not race. Just travel around the country...there are plenty of poor people of all races in the US. Do you think the poor white kid living in a trailer in West Virginia is really better off than the poor black kid in the ghetto? They are both in a crappy situation and both need a step up to better their lives. More inequality is not the answer to inequality.

[FlamesAddiction]

Ironically some of those poorer inner city schools actually have fairly rich and developed athletics programs. I went to a school that was more than half white and had lousy athletics. Should I get the benefit of affirmative action and get accepted on athletic merit to a school where whites are under represented in athletics even if I am simply not as good of an athlete?

[Doodlebug]

Oh oh......how are white people going to get into the University of Toronto now?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Doodlebug

Oh oh......how are white people going to get into the University of Toronto now?

I don't get this?

please explain